Posers
05-10-16, 10:28 AM
#51
Vain, But Lacking Talent
I don't think you are being fair to both sides of the discussion. When someone criticizes Rapha and its customers/acolytes, it isn't necessarily looking down or vilification. In my own case what is being criticized is the notion of the Rapha level of clothing delivering value commensurate with its price. If some folks can extol the company, and you have to agree that there is no shortage of that, surely others are free to point out its perceived faults without being called petty.
So yeah, my language was a little strong, but the sentiment is still there.
Personally, I like high end stuff but can't generally afford it at full price. This is why sales exist. But at the same time, Performance brand bibs do the job and I understand if people don't see the value in buying anything more expensive than that. So I will pay more, even at sale price, and people will say "look at that idiot poseur wearing Rapha" while I smile and wave at them in their PrimalWear Froot Loops Jersey and think, "Hey, I LOVE Froot Loops!"
05-10-16, 10:30 AM
#52
Vain, But Lacking Talent
I can't wait until BF decides what is correct and orthodox for all cyclists so I can find out whether I am supposed to like or revile Rapha gear and whether people who buy it are posers or not. I feel so insecure not knowing .... should I wish I owned Rapha or be glad I don't?
Am I wearing the proper socks? How many am I supposed to wear? Help me, BF! Tell me what the cool kids wear!
Am I wearing the proper socks? How many am I supposed to wear? Help me, BF! Tell me what the cool kids wear!
05-10-16, 11:01 AM
#53
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I think people have a reaction to Rapha because the brand is trying to bring a sense of fashion to workout clothing. A lot of people feel the same way about Arc'teryx with outdoorsy gear or LuluLemon for women's workout stuff: these are brands that offer undeniably high quality goods but with a hefty dose of "image" and high price tags to boot. To me, Rapha brings some of the hate on themselves with the pretensions of cycling's "romantic" ideal of the "pedaleur de charme". Rapha really pushes image with their high contrast B&W images of deadly serious looking people with riding around with their sculpted facial hair and immaculate kits. It's a bit much, especially because cycling gear is inherently dorky. Personally, I couldn't care less about what other people wear while riding a bike.
A person who puts a large amount of effort into achieving a certain image, or counter-image, to the point where it is obviously contrived. Rather than achieving an image through genuine personality, the try-hard consciously attempts to fit a certain style through deliberate imitation, forced style, or scripted behavior. That is to say, he/she is trying hard to create an image.
05-10-16, 11:14 AM
#54
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This pretty much nails it. In layman's terms, these brands (esp Lululemon) seem mostly purchased by "tryhards", as defined by Urban dictionary:
A person who puts a large amount of effort into achieving a certain image, or counter-image, to the point where it is obviously contrived. Rather than achieving an image through genuine personality, the try-hard consciously attempts to fit a certain style through deliberate imitation, forced style, or scripted behavior. That is to say, he/she is trying hard to create an image.
A person who puts a large amount of effort into achieving a certain image, or counter-image, to the point where it is obviously contrived. Rather than achieving an image through genuine personality, the try-hard consciously attempts to fit a certain style through deliberate imitation, forced style, or scripted behavior. That is to say, he/she is trying hard to create an image.
05-10-16, 11:39 AM
#56
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I suspect Rapha's intended market is people who have lots of money. People for whom something being expensive doesn't matter because they really have more money than they know what to do with.
It appears, regardless of the price, the Rapha products are high quality.
Certainly, there are people who can't really afford the Rapha stuff who will buy the Rapha stuff. The market allows them to buy stuff too even if it's not very rational.
So, the Rapha products are not "overpriced" for some people (people with lots of money) and "overpriced" for others.
Anyway, many things bought for reasons of "fashion" are generally "overpriced". So, Rapha isn't very unique there.
05-10-16, 11:47 AM
#57
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They're gonna change my life, huh? NOT!
Sure I know about the benefits of wool clothing, and I wore wool socks most of my working life every single day. Guess what? Then I didn't. No biggie. Everything isn't always about the nth degree. For lots of folks that wool sock business is nonsense. Not everybody is dissatisfied with just plain cycling socks. Cotton, Coolmax, whatever. In fact I never give them any thought. My feet aren't hot, they aren't cold, they aren't wet, they aren't dry. They are just fine in cheap cycling socks.
Sure I know about the benefits of wool clothing, and I wore wool socks most of my working life every single day. Guess what? Then I didn't. No biggie. Everything isn't always about the nth degree. For lots of folks that wool sock business is nonsense. Not everybody is dissatisfied with just plain cycling socks. Cotton, Coolmax, whatever. In fact I never give them any thought. My feet aren't hot, they aren't cold, they aren't wet, they aren't dry. They are just fine in cheap cycling socks.
05-10-16, 11:47 AM
#58
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05-10-16, 11:49 AM
#59
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Criticizing someone who purchases Rapha often (but not always) comes within the context of they paid too much for something (made a foolish decision, the person is not an educated shopper, etc.) and the company is often characterized as actively ripping people off selling them an image.
So yeah, my language was a little strong, but the sentiment is still there.
Personally, I like high end stuff but can't generally afford it at full price. This is why sales exist. But at the same time, Performance brand bibs do the job and I understand if people don't see the value in buying anything more expensive than that. So I will pay more, even at sale price, and people will say "look at that idiot poseur wearing Rapha" while I smile and wave at them in their PrimalWear Froot Loops Jersey and think, "Hey, I LOVE Froot Loops!"
So yeah, my language was a little strong, but the sentiment is still there.
Personally, I like high end stuff but can't generally afford it at full price. This is why sales exist. But at the same time, Performance brand bibs do the job and I understand if people don't see the value in buying anything more expensive than that. So I will pay more, even at sale price, and people will say "look at that idiot poseur wearing Rapha" while I smile and wave at them in their PrimalWear Froot Loops Jersey and think, "Hey, I LOVE Froot Loops!"
Last edited by topslop1; 05-10-16 at 11:57 AM.
05-10-16, 12:01 PM
#60
Recusant Iconoclast
This pretty much nails it. In layman's terms, these brands (esp Lululemon) seem mostly purchased by "tryhards", as defined by Urban dictionary:
A person who puts a large amount of effort into achieving a certain image, or counter-image, to the point where it is obviously contrived. Rather than achieving an image through genuine personality, the try-hard consciously attempts to fit a certain style through deliberate imitation, forced style, or scripted behavior. That is to say, he/she is trying hard to create an image.
A person who puts a large amount of effort into achieving a certain image, or counter-image, to the point where it is obviously contrived. Rather than achieving an image through genuine personality, the try-hard consciously attempts to fit a certain style through deliberate imitation, forced style, or scripted behavior. That is to say, he/she is trying hard to create an image.
[h=1][/h]
05-10-16, 12:01 PM
#61
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Criticizing someone who purchases Rapha often (but not always) comes within the context of they paid too much for something (made a foolish decision, the person is not an educated shopper, etc.) and the company is often characterized as actively ripping people off selling them an image.
So yeah, my language was a little strong, but the sentiment is still there.
Personally, I like high end stuff but can't generally afford it at full price. This is why sales exist. But at the same time, Performance brand bibs do the job and I understand if people don't see the value in buying anything more expensive than that. So I will pay more, even at sale price, and people will say "look at that idiot poseur wearing Rapha" while I smile and wave at them in their PrimalWear Froot Loops Jersey and think, "Hey, I LOVE Froot Loops!"
So yeah, my language was a little strong, but the sentiment is still there.
Personally, I like high end stuff but can't generally afford it at full price. This is why sales exist. But at the same time, Performance brand bibs do the job and I understand if people don't see the value in buying anything more expensive than that. So I will pay more, even at sale price, and people will say "look at that idiot poseur wearing Rapha" while I smile and wave at them in their PrimalWear Froot Loops Jersey and think, "Hey, I LOVE Froot Loops!"
If you are making the best goods you know how to, and they are still not better than your competitors' products, how do you distinguish your brand? How do you make it seem even better than it already is. One of the most effective ways has always been to simply charge more than the other guy. It works every time.
05-10-16, 12:10 PM
#62
Vain, But Lacking Talent
Wow, this has to be one of the worst posts I've ever seen on FB. So you just lump together all people that do not fit your ideal image of "fit" and decide they are not worth respect? This took an ugly turn pretty fast.
05-10-16, 12:17 PM
#63
Vain, But Lacking Talent
I will stipulate that no one makes better cycling clothing than Rapha. I will also contend that a few other companies make cycling clothing just as good as Rapha does. I further contend that at least some of those competitors charge less than Rapha. My only purpose is to point out that even those folks who insist on that level of style, perfornance, and/or durability can obtain it more cheaply than by buying Rapha. And if we talk sales, we have to compare apples to apples, i.e. sales by all such purveyors.
If you are making the best goods you know how to, and they are still not better than your competitors' products, how do you distinguish your brand? How do you make it seem even better than it already is. One of the most effective ways has always been to simply charge more than the other guy. It works every time.
If you are making the best goods you know how to, and they are still not better than your competitors' products, how do you distinguish your brand? How do you make it seem even better than it already is. One of the most effective ways has always been to simply charge more than the other guy. It works every time.
Honestly, I see the upcharge of full price as them making back marketing costs and by the time they go on sale, it's a reasonable price for the product considering R&D and production.
The other thing about Rapha is that lots of people assume it's all retro wool romantic type stuff and Euro-hipsters without helmets riding in the Alps, but their race and technical kit is really phenomenal stuff. I have one of their Pro Team line jerseys in BLACK that I wear in the dead of Texas summers and I have never worn a jersey that has kept me cooler. And the fit is amazing due to the cut along with the fabric that is impossibly next to skin without feeling at all tight. It's a really, really good jersey.
05-10-16, 12:22 PM
#64
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there's ****** bags with envy that need to talk **** no matter where you go, even among cycling pals. So who's the "poser" you refer to? you guys are the ones who went to the shop and didn't buy anything...
Talking **** about high end stuff is the same lame crap as talking **** about low end stuff. If I make fun of you because you are dumb or smart, both ends deserve ridicule... what the hell kind of stupid way of thinking is that?
this thread is bull**** and my mood is poor today
Talking **** about high end stuff is the same lame crap as talking **** about low end stuff. If I make fun of you because you are dumb or smart, both ends deserve ridicule... what the hell kind of stupid way of thinking is that?
this thread is bull**** and my mood is poor today
05-10-16, 12:58 PM
#65
Recusant Iconoclast
So in crayon....as I stated, in context, ie. referring to the poster's urban dictionary definition of a "tryhard", and with the given example of "Lululemon", a person cannot buy their way in creating that image, which is, the Lululemon image of a fit woman, without working for it. Heck, even Chip, the owner got into trouble for suggesting that Lululemon's products weren't for the larger in girth. (*and when did using the words fat and obese become politically incorrect?*).
In a larger context, no amount of expensive gear, kit, or bike can achieve the image of what some think a roadie ought to look like without working for it. If you look at the male model in the Assos kits, no one can buy their way into that physique unless they worked for it. Buy all the expensive kit you want - can't be done.
And now to your idiotic comment - where did I say I lumped together all people that do not fit my ideal image of "fit"? It was simply a sign I saw. I attributed no ownership or authorship or even endorsement of that sign. Again, you'd suck at being a lawyer.
So chill.
05-10-16, 01:06 PM
#66
Spin Meister
"Performance brand bibs do the job and I understand if people don't see the value in buying anything more expensive than that."
I mix and match my Performance bibs with my Rapha jerseys.
I mix and match my Performance bibs with my Rapha jerseys.
__________________
This post is a natural product. Slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and are in no way to be considered flaws or defects.
This post is a natural product. Slight variations in spelling and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and are in no way to be considered flaws or defects.
05-10-16, 01:10 PM
#67
Vain, But Lacking Talent
Chill dude. You're reading into things that's not written, and accusing me of such. You'd suck at being a lawyer.
So in crayon....as I stated, in context, ie. referring to the poster's urban dictionary definition of a "tryhard", and with the given example of "Lululemon", a person cannot buy their way in creating that image, which is, the Lululemon image of a fit woman, without working for it. Heck, even Chip, the owner got into trouble for suggesting that Lululemon's products weren't for the larger in girth. (*and when did using the words fat and obese become politically incorrect?*).
In a larger context, no amount of expensive gear, kit, or bike can achieve the image of what some think a roadie ought to look like without working for it. If you look at the male model in the Assos kits, no one can buy their way into that physique unless they worked for it. Buy all the expensive kit you want - can't be done.
And now to your idiotic comment - where did I say I lumped together all people that do not fit my ideal image of "fit"? It was simply a sign I saw. I attributed no ownership or authorship or even endorsement of that sign. Again, you'd suck at being a lawyer.
So chill.
So in crayon....as I stated, in context, ie. referring to the poster's urban dictionary definition of a "tryhard", and with the given example of "Lululemon", a person cannot buy their way in creating that image, which is, the Lululemon image of a fit woman, without working for it. Heck, even Chip, the owner got into trouble for suggesting that Lululemon's products weren't for the larger in girth. (*and when did using the words fat and obese become politically incorrect?*).
In a larger context, no amount of expensive gear, kit, or bike can achieve the image of what some think a roadie ought to look like without working for it. If you look at the male model in the Assos kits, no one can buy their way into that physique unless they worked for it. Buy all the expensive kit you want - can't be done.
And now to your idiotic comment - where did I say I lumped together all people that do not fit my ideal image of "fit"? It was simply a sign I saw. I attributed no ownership or authorship or even endorsement of that sign. Again, you'd suck at being a lawyer.
So chill.
We're having a discussion about the merits or lack thereof regarding the cost of a particular clothing manufacturer. There were a few references to weight, but you were the one that decided you needed to voice your opinion that those who are not fit (per your definition, not your sign, but you did decide it was applicable enough to post) deserved extra ridicule for wearing certain clothing. You have to realize that doesn't come across very well.
05-10-16, 01:14 PM
#68
Recusant Iconoclast
Pro tip: If you need to type that much to clarify a statement, then you did not make a very good statement.
We're having a discussion about the merits or lack thereof regarding the cost of a particular clothing manufacturer. There were a few references to weight, but you were the one that decided you needed to voice your opinion that those who are not fit (per your definition, not your sign, but you did decide it was applicable enough to post) deserved extra ridicule for wearing certain clothing. You have to realize that doesn't come across very well.
We're having a discussion about the merits or lack thereof regarding the cost of a particular clothing manufacturer. There were a few references to weight, but you were the one that decided you needed to voice your opinion that those who are not fit (per your definition, not your sign, but you did decide it was applicable enough to post) deserved extra ridicule for wearing certain clothing. You have to realize that doesn't come across very well.
05-10-16, 01:26 PM
#69
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You're gonna love this.
Rapha | Pro Team Flyweight Glasses
Rapha | Pro Team Flyweight Glasses
05-10-16, 01:28 PM
#70
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Did you submit it by making a paper airplane out of it and sailing it through your advisor's window? I can see no other reason for the brevity.
05-10-16, 01:51 PM
#71
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You're gonna love this.
Rapha | Pro Team Flyweight Glasses
Rapha | Pro Team Flyweight Glasses
05-10-16, 01:52 PM
#72
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I respect a fabulously overstuffed first cut corn beef and pastrami on rye. I respect it because it can't be imitated, can't be an afterthought, and cannot be challenged as the best tool for destroying one's hunger. I cannot respect the man who refuses to eat this delicious sandwhich, and instead supplements his free time with curls, sit-ups, and oblique specific training.
That said, if you wanna bang around some heavy weights with powercleans, deadlifting, or even throw some kettelbells around I'm game. Just don't offer me a workout with 16 exercises that are all abdominal focused and then a garden salad afterwards. I will beat you down with my rye sammich.
Last edited by topslop1; 05-10-16 at 01:58 PM.
05-10-16, 04:18 PM
#73
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What a pointless thread... lol...
go yell at the clouds and curse people having a good time some more places with your son old man.... lol
go yell at the clouds and curse people having a good time some more places with your son old man.... lol
05-10-16, 04:26 PM
#74
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05-10-16, 05:14 PM
#75
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Nah, you can find a crapton of jerseys that fit well (even race cut) that don't cost upwards of $200. Rapha is heavy on the image, more so than most other apparel companies. But, I did say "mostly", not everyone who buys Rapha stuff is a bearded, cycling cap wearing hipster.