Hi,

Speaking only about stiffness of Tarmac frames: Does FACT 9r REALLY offer less stiff then 10r or 11r?

I have to choose between tow 2nd hand SL4 frames... and the price difference is almost twice. I can't believe this. I think it's all about marketing. But maybe I'm wrong.

Thank for your advise

TheTour

Main difference between the 9r, 10r and 11r for any given model will be weight not the stiffness. The lower grade carbon means that the manufacturer has to use more of it to equal the performance of the higher quality carbon frame.

All of the "r" numbers are made up to show the difference between the higher priced and lower priced stuff. Which is fine, but it's not based on any "real" characteristic of the bike. For example, back in the day the difference between 6r and 8r on a roubaix was that the 8r was much stiffer - but not on the tarmac. On the tarmac they were about the same stiffness, but the 8r was more comfortable to ride.

I highly doubt you'd be able to tell the difference in stiffness riding it, but the difference between the frames is more often in general ride characteristics than it is simply stiffness.

How does that work?

My son road a Tarmac Pro in 2015 (used) and an S-Works Tarmac in 2016 (new) - both team supplied.
The label on the side mattered. The weight mattered (because he knew).
The components mattered. The 2015 Pro top tube cracked (team bike and did PR on it).

He really never mentioned anything else.

I have found their support difficult to work with and they send you back to the dealer - who doesn't respond.

You can say alot of things about Specialized but poor customer service is not one of them. All manufacturers are going to ask you to do the warranty claim through your dealer. That is common practice. Specialized has always been known to go over and above what's expected for there customers. It sounds like your issue lies with your dealer and not with Spec.

8r, 6r, etc is an arbitrary label invented by specialized to indicate "this carbon is higher quality than the other stuff". 8r on one bike could be made completely differently than the other one.

In the Tarmac I rode the 6r, 8r, and 10r. The 6r would rattle your wrists on any road imperfection. I knew I would never like that. The 8r would only rattle your on bigger things on the road. It seems to absord or dissapate the hit for small stuff, but big stuff still got through. The 10r soaked it all up. Unfortunately, they put super stiff wheels on the 10r so while my wrists felt a lot better, but butt and the rest of my body got more of a beating. :-/

I don't know the exact specifics of how it worked, I just know the end result from having done a 15 miles test ride with each bike (yes I filled up the tires to the same pressure before I went out).

Indeed it does. But it is Specialized that chooses this system. And no - I go direct with MASI and Ritchey and get immediate results.

Thats great that Masi and Ritchey work directly with you but as I am sure you know thats an exception. I dare say that if you had the same issue with any other major brand (Trek, Giant, Cervelo, Fuji etc.....) you would have had the same outcome as you did with Specialized. Very few manufacturers will work directly with the customer on warranty claims. They rely on their dealers to be their eyes and ears and to say that Specialized is difficult to work with simply because you don't like how the system works and have had a poor dealer experience simply is not fair.

I emailed MASI support off their Web page telling them nothing but the bike I had and my contact info. They forwarded it around to a few folks internally and sent me a reply.

Two things here I think any company must own.
1 Logging reported issues.
If someone calls and says their carbon fiber frame is rusting. They should keep that history.

2 Take responsibility for the sales and support channel they put in place.
If a dealer can't sell - they may be replaced. If they can't support - I see the MFG own that.

I called Specalized 3 times. I have records of the call and who I talked to. I emailed the dealer. I sent pictures to the dealer at their request. They replied, asked me to send info, I did and did not hear back. Last month - after 9 months I called Spcalized back. While I had 4 Specalized bikes in my room I had not bought, I was calling about the one I did by. I explained the issue. They were nice, said they had never heard of it and sent me back to the dealer. Who - I emailed again (3 people) and have not heard back. So I know that how Specialized worked with me.

I did an analysis of the 2021 Tarmac SL 7 Sworks vs the Tarmac SL 7 Pro. If you were to replace the Rapide CL wheels with the CLX the Pro equipped with Ultegra DI 2 only weighs about 3 oz more than the Sworks equipped with Sram Red. So you get the performance advantage of the CLX wheels which is where you get the biggest bang for the buck for about $8k and a very almost insignificant difference in weight. As I understand the only real difference in the frames is the weight (120 g) the aerodynamics, geometry and the stiffness is the same. Later down the line you can replace the Ultegra cassette with a Durace(wait for a sale) to further reduce the weight not that you need to.So unless you want to insist on impressing your peeps at the coffee shop with the Sworks label save your $4k and spend it on a cycling vacation somewhere. Also the Pro comes in a gorgeous deep red .

Don't think of it in terms of quality. Unless your only measure of quality is how light something can be. The frames are likely constructed to withstand the same forces of rider weight and resistance to damage from normal and not so normal use as any other.

The better and more expensive carbon cloth and resin just allows the bike to have a lower weight in most cases because less of it has to be used. And probably any differences in stiffness are just something that can't be well controlled between the two types of carbon. Similar to how different types of steel tubes gave some vintage bikes a different ride than previous years models with a different alloy of steel.

You guys do know this discussion was from 2016 and was concerning 2016 frames right.......

No I didn't. I'm very ashamed to have not noticed. I seldom respond to zombie threads unless it's just for the pastime of being snarky to the newb that revived it.

What do you have to say for yourself Lfvillarosa

From what I understand, the difference between an R11 frame and an r10 frame is about a pound. S-works frames use R12.

Good job. We need pics of your 7Pro!!

Bikes should be priced like Oreos. Less weight = less material; should be no reason to cost more, right?
Oreos even.. "Thins"... whatta ripoff, I pay the same and get less stuffing? Double-stuff is the best deal