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Same bike: $2200 Ultegra R8000 vs. $2700 105 Di2

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Same bike: $2200 Ultegra R8000 vs. $2700 105 Di2

Old 08-03-23, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Don't you mean 12s 105 Di2?
No, I was not addressing the OP's question; this was a while ago when I was generally comparing like for like except mechanical shifting vs. Di2.
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Old 08-04-23, 06:40 AM
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Will Canyon allow for a wheel upgrade on the Ultegra bike? Personally, I would rather have a better wheelset than electronic shifting.
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Old 08-04-23, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jughed
Will Canyon allow for a wheel upgrade on the Ultegra bike? Personally, I would rather have a better wheelset than electronic shifting.
Canyon build specs are fixed. There are options with better wheel sets, but I think they are all with electronic groups and SL frame.
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Old 08-04-23, 09:59 AM
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So yes, I am considering the Endurace. I remain torn between the R8000 and the 105 Di2. I do see myself selling stock wheels and upgrading to carbon wheels with either bike.

The bikes weigh about the same. And price premium for 105 Di2 is now $600.

Part of me likes the appeal of mechanical simplicity and not worrying about batteries now or in the future. I've always appreciated analog/mechanical things in life.

Part of me sees the appeal of going 12-speed electronic because of those who say it is da sh&t.
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Old 08-04-23, 10:17 AM
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I ride vintage and will likely never acquire electronic shifting on any bike. But if I was buying new I would certainly go with electronic. If you're moving into the current era, might as well go all the way.
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Old 08-04-23, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ppg677
So yes, I am considering the Endurace. I remain torn between the R8000 and the 105 Di2. I do see myself selling stock wheels and upgrading to carbon wheels with either bike.

The bikes weigh about the same. And price premium for 105 Di2 is now $600.

Part of me likes the appeal of mechanical simplicity and not worrying about batteries now or in the future. I've always appreciated analog/mechanical things in life.

Part of me sees the appeal of going 12-speed electronic because of those who say it is da sh&t.
Worrying about batteries is something you do every few months. In some respects, electronic is simpler in that you never deal with maintenance, you charge up every once in a while is all. I have 3 electronic systems, 2 are on mt. bikes where it is arguably a better shift system choice as you (I) find I shift a lot more frequently and it stays perfect. I would never go back to mechanical and if I had a choice between 105 Di2 and Ultegra mechanical, I would go Di2.
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Old 08-04-23, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Jughed
Will Canyon allow for a wheel upgrade on the Ultegra bike? Personally, I would rather have a better wheelset than electronic shifting.
nope, they would not even substitute 35mm tires for the tires that came on the bike.
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Old 08-04-23, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ppg677
So yes, I am considering the Endurace. I remain torn between the R8000 and the 105 Di2. I do see myself selling stock wheels and upgrading to carbon wheels with either bike.

The bikes weigh about the same. And price premium for 105 Di2 is now $600.

Part of me likes the appeal of mechanical simplicity and not worrying about batteries now or in the future. I've always appreciated analog/mechanical things in life.

Part of me sees the appeal of going 12-speed electronic because of those who say it is da sh&t.
$2099 us a deal. Never having ridden an electric shifter I guess I don't know what I am missing but I can say I find it hard to believe I could be any happier. the ultegra shifts so nice I can't imagine it being any better.
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Old 08-04-23, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ppg677
So yes, I am considering the Endurace. I remain torn between the R8000 and the 105 Di2. I do see myself selling stock wheels and upgrading to carbon wheels with either bike.

The bikes weigh about the same. And price premium for 105 Di2 is now $600.

Part of me likes the appeal of mechanical simplicity and not worrying about batteries now or in the future. I've always appreciated analog/mechanical things in life.

Part of me sees the appeal of going 12-speed electronic because of those who say it is da sh&t.
Yeah, the wheels on the 105 version are pretty basic. Probably part of how they kept the price that low. If you've got the scratch to replace those wheels with something better, I'd go 105 Di2, definitely.
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Old 08-04-23, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
nope, they would not even substitute 35mm tires for the tires that came on the bike.
Yep. You want the low price, you have to take what's already in the box. Like the lack of a test ride, or fitting services, or the ability to swap saddles etc. that's the trade off.
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Old 08-04-23, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
$2099 us a deal. Never having ridden an electric shifter I guess I don't know what I am missing but I can say I find it hard to believe I could be any happier. the ultegra shifts so nice I can't imagine it being any better.
I used to think like that until I went electronic. No more floppy brifters for me! Seriously though, electronic shifting is a step forward that few people would regret. In this case it really comes down to the cost. There is no real performance advantage with electronic, but it does make shifting super slick and effortless. Plus no more cable maintenance and cleaner front end. Battery charging is trivial.
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Old 08-04-23, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
$2099 us a deal. Never having ridden an electric shifter I guess I don't know what I am missing but I can say I find it hard to believe I could be any happier. the ultegra shifts so nice I can't imagine it being any better.
Me too, I will always prefer mechanical shifters to electronic ones , ultegra is of higher quality than 105 by a wide margin.
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Old 08-04-23, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by georges1
Me too, I will always prefer mechanical shifters to electronic ones , ultegra is of higher quality than 105 by a wide margin.
No it isnít.
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Old 08-06-23, 10:43 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by SoSmellyAir
My vote is for the 105 Di2, because:

1. The RD cable on 11-speed Shimano STI mechanical levers wear out relatively quickly.
2. I could upgrade to an Ultegra 11-30 cassette (which has a 16T cog) to avoid the 15T to 17T transition.
To each their own on priorities, but if this does happen(and it's rare to actually happen), it certainly wouldn't be in the top 20 things I consider when choosing a bike.
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Old 08-07-23, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
To each their own on priorities, but if this does happen(and it's rare to actually happen), it certainly wouldn't be in the top 20 things I consider when choosing a bike.
really? mine has needed replacement approx every 3,000 miles. both LBS who have done it say itís totally normal for that drivetrain.
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Old 08-07-23, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett
really? mine has needed replacement approx every 3,000 miles. both LBS who have done it say itís totally normal for that drivetrain.
Yeah, I'vd read comments about it happening and believe it happens.
It's just not something that I have experienced, or read as being a widespread issue, or heard as being a widespread issue.

3000mi is a 2-3 years of riding for a lot of people. And if they have multiple bikes, it could be a couple years even if they ride 3000mi per year in total.
Just doesn't seem like sometthing that I would weigh heavily when considering groups.
It's like if I did a bunch of handwringing over the possibility that a battery fails and bricks out on a di2 drivetrain. Yeah it's possible, but it isn't something I would actually use to weigh my decision.
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Old 08-08-23, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Yeah, I'vd read comments about it happening and believe it happens.
It's just not something that I have experienced, or read as being a widespread issue, or heard as being a widespread issue.

3000mi is a 2-3 years of riding for a lot of people. And if they have multiple bikes, it could be a couple years even if they ride 3000mi per year in total.
Just doesn't seem like sometthing that I would weigh heavily when considering groups.
It's like if I did a bunch of handwringing over the possibility that a battery fails and bricks out on a di2 drivetrain. Yeah it's possible, but it isn't something I would actually use to weigh my decision.
another trip to the LBS every six months is definitely a factor for me, when compared with, well, zero trips to replace cables. especially when you throw in the increasingly unsatisfying shifting leading up to the replacement. obviously not an expensive or particularly complex fix, but beyond my mechanical ability at the moment and pretty unacceptable longevity of what really shouldn't be a fast wearing component (like, say, brake pads or tires) if properly designed and specified.
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Old 08-08-23, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett
another trip to the LBS every six months is definitely a factor for me, when compared with, well, zero trips to replace cables. especially when you throw in the increasingly unsatisfying shifting leading up to the replacement.
Exactly. Plus if you wait too long the RD cable breaks while on a ride, leaving you stranded, plus the hassle of extracting the broken end from the STI lever.

Originally Posted by mschwett
obviously not an expensive or particularly complex fix, but beyond my mechanical ability at the moment ...
I suppose how difficult it is largely depends on the cable routing of your frame. Mine was not bad but entails removing both shift cables to remove the RD one so I had to replace both.

Originally Posted by mschwett
... and pretty unacceptable longevity of what really shouldn't be a fast wearing component (like, say, brake pads or tires) if properly designed and specified.
Not sure if this could be helped given the small radius turn that the cable has to travel through within the STI levers.
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Old 08-08-23, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mschwett
another trip to the LBS every six months is definitely a factor for me, when compared with, well, zero trips to replace cables. especially when you throw in the increasingly unsatisfying shifting leading up to the replacement. obviously not an expensive or particularly complex fix, but beyond my mechanical ability at the moment and pretty unacceptable longevity of what really shouldn't be a fast wearing component (like, say, brake pads or tires) if properly designed and specified.
You are clearly on the fringe end of cycling miles per year. I think this is often lost on a message board like BF- it isn't common to ride 6000mi each year. That isn't close to the average for what people who identify as cyclists put on their odometer each year.

Again-
- yes cables can feay and preventative maintenance is better than reactionary maintenance.
- no, cables aren't being eaten by shifters at some alarming rate, even if cables need to be replaced every 3000mi.
- 3000mi on one bike is 2 or even 3 years for most that identify as cyclists. Heck, for those that ride road, gravel, and mtb and have half a dozen bikes, even they may take a couple years to put 3000mi on their bikes.


I don't view cables as scary and don't view them as some wild card that I need to be constantly concerned about failing. Maybe that's blissful ignorance on my part, but based on seeing how rare its actually an issue thru experience and discussion, it seems like most also don't view it as anything to focus their fears on.
I completely recognize that cable heads can fray, it just isn't something that I worry about when considering which bike or drivetrain to use. See my example about a di2 battery bricking- this stuff just isn't concerning.

If it required taking the bike into a shop for the 2 shift cables to be replaced, I can see that being a frustration, especially if that's the only bike ridden.
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Old 08-09-23, 08:27 AM
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curious why does there seem to be an issue with the cable breaking? looking at it there is no odd bends or extreme angles and cable seems to flow nice and smooth. It has way less angle than my deore mtb 1x11 rd and I have about 5500 miles on that with the original cable with no signs of wear or tear. saying that it will probably break tomorrow but so far so good.
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Old 08-09-23, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jadmt
curious why does there seem to be an issue with the cable breaking? looking at it there is no odd bends or extreme angles and cable seems to flow nice and smooth. It has way less angle than my deore mtb 1x11 rd and I have about 5500 miles on that with the original cable with no signs of wear or tear. saying that it will probably break tomorrow but so far so good.
Shimano cable routing that used to be external was a dead straight line and the wrap that the cable experienced thru shifting(it would click in a circle) would bend the cable in a less severe manner.
Current gen Shimano shifting does route the cable smoothly on initial installation, but the actual shifting use does bend the cable a lot more in a tight circle compared to the old shifting design. Also, the internals of Shimano mechanism are metal, so its metal on metal and I would guess that would cause some wear.
SRAM used(uses?) a plastic internal setup, for what its worth.

Yes, Shimano cables can fray at the head and do fray more now when compared to the old style of shifting. No, it isnt some massive widespread issue that everyone needs to constantly worry about and plan their entire drivetrain around. All drivetrains require maintenance, even electronic drivetrains. We are talking about basic maintenance here, and infrequent maintenance at that(every 3000mi at shortest?). Also, if you dont shift frequently, that significantly reduces the concern since cables break from use and not from just existing inside the shifter body.




This comes to mind when I see or (regrettably)participate in conversations over the potential for a shift cable eventually breaking- some keep perspective and others consider so many possibilities that even the potential for a cable fraying at some point after 3000mi is too much.
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Old 08-09-23, 09:27 AM
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The first gen that went under the tape frayed more frequently than the current stuff.

I probably have to replace mine (R8000) every 8,000 - 10,000 miles. If you don't replace it preemptively - I never remember to do it - it can jam up the lever by the time you notice it (usually when you can't shift to both ends of the cassette), which makes removing it a little more of a chore.
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Old 08-10-23, 01:32 PM
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I have GRX 810: rear cable broke 2500mi(actually broke on ride), front frayed(poor shifting) 3500mi. Internal routing so had a bike shop do both.
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Old 08-11-23, 03:28 AM
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I have 6 bikes but for comparison.....my Canyon Aeroad with Ultegra mechanical vs my wife's Ultimate with DI-2. I like the feel of the Ultegra mechanical but the DI-2 does feel a bit more "precise." I am happy with either. No big deal for me. Having said that, I am a believer in "if you have an itch...scratch it." Which is why I have 6 bikes I guess.
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Old 08-11-23, 09:30 AM
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Di2 lacks tactile feedback and charging a bike is crazy.

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