I was actually just thinking about a very closely related phenomenon the other day: my sister's simultaneous claims that

a) There are no statistically-significant mental differences between men and women

and

b) Women are better in management positions because of more long-term thinking and more inclusive tendencies

Which is it?

So why should women alter their opinions of what's appropriate so the men can post what they want?

The idea that men can't alter their behavior to not be offensive/intimidating to women is insulting--are you really that much of a dumb animal that you "can't help it?" Personally I'd like to think that as an adult in society I'm capable of exercising some restraint/composure/courtesy rather than uncontrollably surrendering to some animal instincts.

More women cycling = don't care
Less women cycling = don't care

The same sentiment goes for more or less men cycling too.

Sure, we are capable of restraining our behavior, often do, and often "should". That's hardly the point I was making.

I'd prefer we just all be strong enough to not be bothered by those who don't "restrain" themselves in their comments.

I got to at least have bragging rights to be in a controversial forum before it get's padlocked.

The fact that so many people are saying "women just need to relax/be more tolerant/etc etc." is unfortunate evidence of the sexism that's insidious but so prevalent in society. Nobody seems to be batting an eyelash at the ton of posts saying that women are the ones who need to change their standards in order to improve the BF experience.

Yes. Thank you.

This thread follows up on the Vuelta stage winner's champagne spray. I saw it. Nothing sexist about the "incident" in the slightest. First he sprayed the crowd. Last the two women flanking him. I didn't see any aiming at their breasts. It appeared to be almost an afterthought--"I should get everybody," like if a guy handed him the champagne bottle, he would have gotten sprayed too.

I want to see more women riding. I want to see more men riding. I want to see more kids riding.

I want to see more women posting on BF. Listening to other people's viewpoints, viewpoints we haven't previously heard, is interesting.

OK, consider these situations ...

A) Suppose I (a woman) posted about a recent century ride I did, and as a part of that ride report, I made the comment that a guy rode up beside me and said, "Nice bike!" When I looked over I discovered he was riding a Marinoni too. We rode and chatted together for the next 20 km and then went our separate ways.

I highly doubt that a woman would come in at some point during the first 5 or 10 posts and say, "Was he hot?" or "Did you hook up after the ride?" or anything like that. If people commented on the ride report at all, they would likely make comments or ask questions about the bicycle and/or ride.


B) Now suppose a guy posted about a recent century ride he did, and as a part of that ride report, he made the comment that a girl rode up beside him and said, "Nice bike!" When he looked over he discovered she was riding a Marinoni too. They rode and chatted together for the next 20 km and then went their separate ways.

I suspect there would be a good chance that somewhere in the first 5 or 10 posts some guy would come in with "Was she hot?" or "Did you hook up after the ride?" or something like that.


Would my suspicions be right or wrong?


Why is it necessary to know anything about the looks of the girl? And what's worse are the comments that if she wasn't hot, they would have blown her off earlier than 20 km (I've seen those ones). Those sorts of comments are completely unnecessary and unwelcome in a co-ed cycling forum.

Where did this thread disappear to for a while?

While I agree someone would undoubtedly ask about her being hot, I must again present evidence that both sexes do this:

AND there is this thread: Cheers

Rob

As a male, I think that your suspions are correct.

It is not necessary to know anything about the looks of the girl, and by the same token, it's really not necessary to know anything about the ride, or about anything else in the world for that matter .

Personally, (and I can speak for alot of guys on this one) I can't help but be curious as to the looks of the aforementioned female. Whether or not it is followed by a rude comment or some rude behaviour is dependant on the individual, but curiousity in itself is nothing to be ashamed of.

Of course your suspicion would be correct. And it would be totally natural and normal for the men to find the attractiveness of the woman in question to be very important information to enquire about and consider when pondering the scenario. It's just the way we are. The women may be more interested in other things. That's totally natural too. Neither are situations to get upset about.

Those photos are in Foo, not in the Road forum. They are not posted as part of a cycling discussion. The comments made in those threads are also complimentary, not sleazy.

The fact that this thread made it to page 6 without going down in flames is surprising and a bit refreshing - a testament to the fact that many here are not intentionally insulting female posters.

So many times I see comments that could be interpreted as insulting to females and wonder what the poster was thinking. The locker room mentally that permeates this forum leads to an attempt to shock readers with their response, sometimes in an attempt to be humorous. These attempts in humor are sometime way off, since the written word is often misinterpreted. I think we’ve all made attempts at humor that completely missed it’s mark. When the humorous comments are sexist, it can be very insulting, both to males and females. Whether misdirected attempts at humor or shock value, it is sad to see and demoralizing. However, you must admit, many read the posts for their entertainment value. And some of the posts are absolutely hilarious.

I think this forum is very supportive to females looking for advice, especially those just beginning. I understand some reluctance to post for beginners for fear of being trashed with negative responses. Those that are confident ignore the crap and focus on the input that has some value.

Female first time posters with stupid questions generally don't get flamed at all.

Just sayin'.

none of the females are denying that yes, we notice these physical attributes in men, but nowhere in any of our posts do we make uncomfortable remarks about how we'd "tap that" or wonder if he likes it "sprayed in his face." which are remarks that i have seen.

"was she hot" doesn't offend much, "was she wearing a white t-shirt?" does.

those threads are in that forum for a reason. they are nowhere near this one.

I had to remove my pic from that thread as all the chicas were treating me like a piece of meat to ogle and use.

The post you're referring to was jumped on almost immediately by men of this forum (who are all pigs, apparently) saying that it was inappropriate.

The whole thread was a train wreck and got out of hand. There are always going to be bad apples.

Ladies of BF - it's testosterone. Males have far excess of what you females would ever achieve without pharmacologic stimulation.

It makes men do stupid things and engage in stupid activities. Like lion hunting. Or bike racing. Take your pic. I do my fair share of them myself, and I'm usually considered one of the most gentlemanly of the crowd.

A lot of the juvenile and superficial male behavior you see commonly has do with this male-female difference. It doesn't excuse it or make it correct, and we males have to take responsibility for the fallout, but that's reality.

With BF, in it's current state, I would agree with your suspicions 100%.

However, I would argue that this is due to the Male/Female ratio in RC. If you had the same number of Males/Females and other variables like teenage males/females, I would wager that this anomaly would normalize significantly (example of behavioral normalization is any of the popular social networking sites).

Furthermore, everyone here has to realize that this is a pretty anonymous msg. board on the Internet. People can and will say things that they might not say in a face-to-face conversation.

We have moderators when things go overboard...

glad I skipped Sociology class...

Never took Sociology...

Listened to "People are People" by Depeche Mode

{looong sigh}

Dudes . . . young dudes . . . you're wrong.

All these lame excuses and lame rationalizations are just a lamebrain attempt to justify irresponsible fun as usual.

Machka's initial analysis (post 4) is dead on accurate, and all I'm hearing since then is lame excuses and rationalizations. You just don't want to stop doing what you're having fun doing. Mommy's not around looking over your shoulder so you're just wilding in your unsupervised freedom on the internet and you don't care who you hurt.

You've found you have peers here who think and act just like you, and you're determined you're going to do everything you can to impress these other boys, because that's important to you -- impressing the guys with how much of a gutsy "man" you are. Yeah, make that bold, irreverent remark. Post that sexy picture. Show the guys you know where to get porn as well as anybody.

Yeah, all your peers with their equally mushy & undeveloped brains are verrrrry impressed. And you're too stupid to realize nobody else is.

If you're lucky, one day you might look back on your stupid behavior and have some regrets, or at least at the bare minimum realize how stupid you were. Because you really are stupid now, and it's pathetic. It's lame. FAIL.

I know this is getting a little long for your undeveloped attention spans to stick with without any pictures to hold your interest, but instead of the women feeling they have to retreat to their own subforum, what we really need is a subforum for all our juvenile members. And throw away the key until they know how to act and talk around mature, grown folks.

Yep, every male under 25 is such a pig. Oh, and everyone over 25 is a bore and prude. Aren't generalizations fun?