If I weren't guilty of an offense I certainly wouldn't be the first to speak up for the defense.

Trust me when I say the women noticed, and were happy, that there were men who jumped on that post and those comments. We do appreciate it when it's not just the women crying foul.

That's not the point. I'm getting tired of this entire thread being about "all these young kids are pigs, if we got rid of them this place would be much better".

It's ridiculous.

I'm not accusing "all". Nobody is accusing "all", and if they do they don't mean it.

But there is a large percentage of the young dudes here who are guilty of the accusations put forth in this thread. Don't get me wrong, there are many respectful young gentlemen in this nation, and probably a few on this forum. But they're a minority here, and they're drowned out and overshadowed by the others . . . the dark side. They may come, but they don't stay. Just like many mature adults come, but they don't stay. Just like many women come, but they don't stay. Decent folks just don't want to deal with the childish BS.

By being so outspoken, you give the impression you're a defender of the dark side. If you're NOT one of them, then calm down and let them speak up for themselves. If you are one of them, then yes, we're talking about you.

The text says differently.

And if someone said that older guys are pedophiles, you wouldn't speak up, because you're not a pedophile, just an old guy? Yeah, that makes sense. I shouldn't stick up for young people just because I'm one of the young people who isn't a jerk. Alright.

Good night, Flat.

Not yet. I'm only 21. I'll be up until 6 AM drinking and hitting on drunk sorority girls.

[QUOTE=BillyD;9702518]I'm not accusing "all". Nobody is accusing "all", and if they do they don't mean it.

But there is a large percentage of the young dudes here who are guilty of the accusations put forth in this thread. Don't get me wrong, there are many respectful young gentlemen in this nation, and probably a few on this forum. But they're a minority here, and they're drowned out and overshadowed by the others . . . the dark side. They may come, but they don't stay. Just like many mature adults come, but they don't stay. Just like many women come, but they don't stay. Decent folks just don't want to deal with the childish BS.

By being so outspoken, you give the impression you're a defender of the dark side. If you're NOT one of them, then calm down and let them speak up for themselves. If you are one of them, then yes, we're talking about you.[/QUOTE]

That's a nice trap you set right there.

It is now impossible to speak against you without being a defender of the dark side.

There are so many loaded statements and straight-up insults in this post that im not sure where I should begin my criticism.

Have you had some bad experiences with us youngsters lately? (not counting the interwebz). You're so resentful!

You must have been young and full of life, energy and testosterone once.

Spare us, old wise one.

Those are just there to eff with your head.

Trust me on this one.

The only person displayed on my cubicle walls was my husband.

I'm 38 and still a pig, guess I don't stand a chance. My wife dosen't seem to mind, she actually jokes that's why I married you.

I think this is the case with 90+% of male cyclists. If the man or woman down the street enjoy cycling, good for them. However, that does nothing to improve my performance so...

The same thing that prompts my teen (female) to remark "nice buns" under her breath on occasion as we drive by some young male college student.

Pcad, you have finally posted something I can totally agree with.

That about sums it up.

Its interesting that as brain development goes, 23 is a magic age. Ask the auto insurance underwriters. Then 26-28 happen when you start to get the hairs on your shoulder, not a patch...just a bunch of individual hairs (unless you're Italian, in which case you've probably already dealt with these since 13). Then, after a really fun weekend, takes a few days to recover from the fun you've had. Oh, and hair...some are lucky some are not. As far as social development--all were raised and taught well, others not.

...and some just like the anonimity of the interwebs.

I wish my wife would ride with me--she'd look smokin' hot in lycra. She'd think otherwise.


+1 to what merlinextralight wrote.

I don't know about your club, but serious Randonneur riders ARE training for a race, it's just a race against the clock. (for those unfamiliar try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevet_%28cycling%29). I have a friend who did the Brevets requirements for P-B-P and while it says "non competitive" that doesn't mean people aren't busting their backsides to qualify.

While I can understand your sentiment, and must agree that responses were, at best, sophomoric in many cases, I also have to pose a question. Would you, as a woman, enter a man's locker room and try to conduct a conversation on the adequacy of female sanitary products? Obviously not. That is a topic that simple common sense tells you will only degenerate in ANY predominantly male environment (aside maybe from gay bars, I doubt they'd respond at all). If BF wants to lower the "hostility" level, then establish a "men's issues" section. Banish all pics of attractive female riders to this area. Banish all "my _____ hurst after a ride" topics to this area, banish all questions about men's clothing etc. to this area. On an equal footing, if there is a woman's area (and there is) then promote it (how many women post in this forum trying to FIND it? More than a few!) Any woman who expects knowledgeable commentary from a 90% male population on the topic of cycling skirts needs to post on alt.rec.cycling.transvestite.fashion.

Fair or not, everyone should know that the equivalent of yelling "fire" in a crowded theater will NOT yield positive or constructive results.

Some, (much) may indeed be the "men are pigs" "thing" but some is also unrealistic expectations, and SOME is also lack of "user friendliness" when it comes to finding areas set aside so women can avoid us "pigs."

By the way, at https://www.bikeforums.net/index.php there is no search option at all and a "find on this page" turns up NOTHING for the word "women". If I were a woman looking for women specific cycling info, I'd give BF about 15 seconds, make this discovery, and return to Google and my search.

Randonneuring is not racing, and you don't race against the clock. The event is timed, but the times are pretty relaxed. You've got to maintain a 15 km/h minimum speed, including all breaks. Hardly race pace. And it isn't supposed to be competitive ... after all you're not competing against anyone else. Everyone who finished a brevet "wins" ... it doesn't matter if that person crosses the finish line quickly or slowly. Randonneuring is supposed to be supportive and friendly.

And I've done a lot more than just the brevets required to qualify for the PBP.

Wow amazing how things "don't" change with time.
Just watched an expose on Discovery Channel. It was about sexism in the Gladiator Games and discussed how the Gladiator's did not want wimmen joining the ranks because they felt they had to act differently in the barracks and did not like being beaten by wimmens either.

Sheesh...bored now.

1) But this is NOT a male only locker room, and that's kind of the point we're trying to make. Some folks on this forum act as if its a guys-only area and while it's dominated by males, there is a female presence that is just asking for a little civility on some subjects.

2) The post in question was not about female sanitary products, but about cycling specific clothing. Gimme a break! Do you see a lot of women chiming in on the "where do I tuck the boys" or "chafing issues" or "vasectomy recovery" threads with snide comments? Didn't think so.

3) You don't HAVE to comment on every thread. If it's about a more female oriented subject (such as riding skirts/skorts) don't click on that thread. Yes, we have a women's only forum but many of us rarely go there. I know I don't. Posting something road cycling related to the road cycling forum makes sense to me, and I think that women should feel free to be able to post in this section of the forum without undue (that's the key word) harassment. All you guys with wives and girlfriends might pick up some knowledge that will help them ... lord knows I've been able to pass on tips to my male riding friends from everything I've read on this forum. If I do happen to have a question that's more related to being female than to cycling, then I will take it to the Women's Forum.

+1. It doesn't matter if you guys don't think it's hostile, if women are uncomfortable then it's a problem.
I guess in the future when I come across unfortunate posts, I'll let them know what I think. I may get jumped on for doing this, but we need more women around here saying "Hey, that's not cool."

Of course, the insensitive posts DO give me a nice source of rage to draw on when I need to hammer...

No problem there, but recognize the reality of the situation. BF is 90% male, some men ARE pigs. Pigs, even with lipstick, are still pigs.

Citing an extreme example is one type of legitimate argument, nothing more.


I agree about the undue harassment, and I place much of the emptiness of the woman's area on aforementioned problems with the inability to locate it readily. I personally believe that a male specific area would be appropriate. The problem will be, if half of the 90% male population gravitates there, then so will half (about) of the good information. Then we'll be reduced to the argument that the "good places" are all reserved for the men. Decidedly NOT what I'm after, but that is the likely reality.