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the dreaded 2nd flat

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the dreaded 2nd flat

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Old 09-20-11 | 01:40 PM
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On group rides with more than one other co-rider: One tube only, regardless of ride length. You will get help when needed.

On solo rides (or one other rider only):
<50 miles: One tube + patch kit
50+ miles: Two tubes + patch kit
You could do the 50 miler with one tube+patch as well, but I like to have backup in the rare case that the tube is unpatchable, like a valve type puncture that can't be easily patched.

I love patching, but I've never had to patch on the road. But I've patched often enough at home that it would definitely be a trivial task. It's super-uber easy - just don't use the 'preglued' patches, as those fail much more than the separate glue ones, which for me, have never failed - not once. Even my rookie patches worked great.

Once you do a patch and see it holds, you'll never be afraid of on-road flats that strand you ever again.
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Old 09-20-11 | 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by runner pat
Often the hole is too small to see(especially with aging eyes) and it's faster to replace the tube and use the full sink method at home.
I've never had to use the sink method. Just pump up your tube, and listen for the leak - the small holes will cause air to rush through faster (physics) and you will both hear and feel the air leak.

After you find the pinhole, a key move is to WIDEN the hole so you can easily find it. Yup, counterintuitive but if you at least make it a 2mm hole that you can definitively find and fix, you won't have any questions of whether you 'got it' with your patch, which is usually the case when you've got a microscopic puncture. The patches can really cover big gaps - I wouldn't hesitate to throw a big patch over a 1cm tear in my tube.
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Old 09-20-11 | 01:59 PM
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Who wants to waste the time to figure out the tire repair order of the day?

Gee, how many tubes should I take today? Should I add an extra Co2 cartridge, or just leave it at home and take only the pump? Are these patches any good? Who else is going to be there? What's the weather like, right now? How about later? Will I be gone long? How remote is the ride?

What's SWMBO doing today? Is she going to be available? Will there be cell service where I am? Will she have cell service? What if she's not around then? What if I'm riding when I'm supposed to be at work? What friends could I call if I royally screw this up?

Should I bring cleat covers in case I have to walk? Can I walk in these cleats? Are these my favorite socks? I don't want to ruin them.

That's just too much work. Load the kit up, leave it on the bike, and rock on. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. And don't impose the consequences of your bad judgement on other people.
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Old 09-20-11 | 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DScott
Who wants to waste the time to figure out the tire repair order of the day?

Gee, how many tubes should I take today? Should I add an extra Co2 cartridge, or just leave it at home and take only the pump? Are these patches any good? Who else is going to be there? What's the weather like, right now? How about later? Will I be gone long? How remote is the ride?

What's SWMBO doing today? Is she going to be available? Will there be cell service where I am? Will she have cell service? What if she's not around then? What if I'm riding when I'm supposed to be at work? What friends could I call if I royally screw this up?

Should I bring cleat covers in case I have to walk? Can I walk in these cleats? Are these my favorite socks? I don't want to ruin them.

That's just too much work. Load the kit up, leave it on the bike, and rock on. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. And don't impose the consequences of your bad judgement on other people.
No kidding ... jeeeesh, some crazy people here.

When you run out of tubes and/or patches, find some scrap plastic to wrap around the hole in the tube
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Old 09-20-11 | 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hhnngg1
.

I love patching, but I've never had to patch on the road. But I've patched often enough at home that it would definitely be a trivial task. It's super-uber easy - just don't use the 'preglued' patches, as those fail much more than the separate glue ones, which for me, have never failed - not once. Even my rookie patches worked great.
I've used preglued. Never had a problem.
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Old 09-20-11 | 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by DScott
2 tubes, patch kit, tire boot, Co2 and a mini-pump. IMO, it's selfish to make someone come and get you just because you're afraid of carrying a little extra weight.

I'm saving the phone calls for that trip home from the ER.
True that...how much can an extra inner tube possibly weigh?
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Old 09-20-11 | 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DScott
2 tubes, patch kit, tire boot, Co2 and a mini-pump. IMO, it's selfish to make someone come and get you just because you're afraid of carrying a little extra weight.

I'm saving the phone calls for that trip home from the ER.
This is me. First flat gets a new tube and CO2. Second flat gets a patch and a pump. I'm probably late anyway now so I might as well take my time and get it right.
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Old 09-20-11 | 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia
True that...how much can an extra inner tube possibly weigh?
75 grams for a Michelin Ultra Lite.
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Old 09-20-11 | 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by hhnngg1
On group rides with more than one other co-rider: One tube only, regardless of ride length. You will get help when needed.

On solo rides (or one other rider only):
<50 miles: One tube + patch kit
50+ miles: Two tubes + patch kit
You could do the 50 miler with one tube+patch as well, but I like to have backup in the rare case that the tube is unpatchable, like a valve type puncture that can't be easily patched.

I love patching, but I've never had to patch on the road. But I've patched often enough at home that it would definitely be a trivial task. It's super-uber easy - just don't use the 'preglued' patches, as those fail much more than the separate glue ones, which for me, have never failed - not once. Even my rookie patches worked great.

Once you do a patch and see it holds, you'll never be afraid of on-road flats that strand you ever again.
Here's the deal with preglued....

They are designed to be TEMPORARY (i.e. get you home). So they are best used on the road if you are in a hurry.

For permanent repair, you need the old-fashioned patches with the vulcanizing cement.
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Old 09-20-11 | 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas
Here's the deal with preglued....

They are designed to be TEMPORARY (i.e. get you home). So they are best used on the road if you are in a hurry.

For permanent repair, you need the old-fashioned patches with the vulcanizing cement.
I would agree based on what I've seen of the preglued patches. They seem to hold well enough to get you home, just don't plan on them holding for weeks or months.

I never had any luck finding the hole. Its a ninja thing or something. I get a lot of these with a hole too small to even think about seeing.
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Old 09-20-11 | 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DScott
Who wants to waste the time to figure out the tire repair order of the day?

SEE BELOW

That's just too much work. Load the kit up, leave it on the bike, and rock on. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. And don't impose the consequences of your bad judgement on other people.
Gee, how many tubes should I take today? Three.
Should I add an extra Co2 cartridge, or just leave it at home and take only the pump? Pump.
Are these patches any good? Only as good as the patcher.
Who else is going to be there? I am a one man wolfpack.
What's the weather like, right now? Windy with a chance of more wind.
How about later? See above.
Will I be gone long? Flats happen everywhere.
How remote is the ride? Doesn't matter.
What's SWMBO doing today? That is a long acronym.
Is she going to be available? Depends on what SWMBO means.
Will there be cell service where I am? Verizon, so, yes.
Will she have cell service? See above.
What if she's not around then? There's always someone you can call.
What if I'm riding when I'm supposed to be at work? Ride TO work.
What friends could I call if I royally screw this up? See two above.
Should I bring cleat covers in case I have to walk? MTB shoes and Candy pedals.
Can I walk in these cleats? See above.
Are these my favorite socks? Seek therapy.
I don't want to ruin them. Make a follow-up appointment.

DS, this is not mocking you, it is mocking the process :-)
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Old 09-20-11 | 02:39 PM
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patch kit please! 2 tubes, 2 c02, mini pump, levers and a multitool. oh and my cell in case I do ever need to make the dreaded call. 50 miles somewhere crazy without at least one of these would be bad...
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Old 09-20-11 | 02:47 PM
  #38  
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50miles is short for carrying 2 tubes for me. Shorter rides are definitely 1 tube. A century might be a tube and a patch kit (though I've done 200k brevets with only 1 tube). A 3 day tour will definitely call for 2 spare tubes and a patch kit.
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Old 09-20-11 | 03:02 PM
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small seat bag: patch kit, 4 CO2's, tire levers, multi tool hex wrench, and cash.
left jersey pocket - 2 tubes and a mini pump in a ziplock
middle jersey pocket - phone and cleat covers or another tube (depending on the distance)
right pocket - energy bars and gels
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Old 09-20-11 | 03:06 PM
  #40  
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My first line of defense is my Gatorskins. My second line is my spare tube. My third is a patch kit. I carry a micropump mounted alongside my bottle cage too. Since I bough the Gatorskins, I haven't had to go to my second line of defense. I have used my tubes, patches and pump to help other people along the way. I don't race and rarely have a partner, so I have to be self-sufficient.
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Old 09-20-11 | 03:08 PM
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For those who argue for a more robust tire, just yesterday morning I was taken out by a large roofing staple through a Specialized Nimbus tire and Slime liners. Sometimes you just can't prevent it.
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Old 09-20-11 | 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RTDub
What sucks more than a second flat is a second flat because of patch fail.
Mostly because I always kept looking it over trying to find a second hole lol

I carry two tubes at all times for anything up to 50. Two tubes, a tire lever, a multitool, and a chain tool all fit in a tiny little Topeak bag on the back of my saddle. If I'm riding further where support or cell service is nonexistent, I'll carry a couple more and go to the extreme of a CO2 and nozzle in case my pump fails. That's generally reserved for a mountain ride though and I rarely do it but after getting stuck 5 miles (luckily) from home one time, I stopped messing around.
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Old 09-20-11 | 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RTDub
Gee, how many tubes should I take today? Three.
Should I add an extra Co2 cartridge, or just leave it at home and take only the pump? Pump.
Are these patches any good? Only as good as the patcher.
Who else is going to be there? I am a one man wolfpack.
What's the weather like, right now? Windy with a chance of more wind.
How about later? See above.
Will I be gone long? Flats happen everywhere.
How remote is the ride? Doesn't matter.
What's SWMBO doing today? That is a long acronym.
Is she going to be available? Depends on what SWMBO means.
Will there be cell service where I am? Verizon, so, yes.
Will she have cell service? See above.
What if she's not around then? There's always someone you can call.
What if I'm riding when I'm supposed to be at work? Ride TO work.
What friends could I call if I royally screw this up? See two above.
Should I bring cleat covers in case I have to walk? MTB shoes and Candy pedals.
Can I walk in these cleats? See above.
Are these my favorite socks? Seek therapy.
I don't want to ruin them. Make a follow-up appointment.

DS, this is not mocking you, it is mocking the process :-)
You're making a mockery of my mockery. Does that mean we're serious now?

Or does two mockings make us right?

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed*

* See the most awesome of mocksters, Rumpole
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Old 09-20-11 | 04:35 PM
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Oh no, I'll show my age.

No CO2. Always a frame pump.

2 tubes, patch kit.

And minor modification to the patch kit. Once the glue is opened a second unopened tube. Few things suck more than being prepaired only to find the glue dried out. (and it does not need to be all the way dry to not be useful).
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Old 09-20-11 | 06:48 PM
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Patch kits RULE.

There are tons of cyclists (more triathletes, actually) who refuse to patch. I haven't patched on the road (no preglued stuff) but if I did, it would only add literally 60 seconds to my already 3-4 minute tire change process, and faster if I get a fellow rider to help me.

I've yet to have a patch fail. I'm like 15/15, with no special tricks or experience needed. I'm so confident in their integrity that I take them as my backup spare for races (I used to only take new tubes for backups esp for races, but with none failing, why worry?) My trainer tire has two patches on it, and I was sure the added tension on the tire would cause a leak, but nope - over a year and not a single problem with those patches either.

Patches rule!
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Old 09-20-11 | 07:11 PM
  #46  
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I'm not going to carry 2 tubes on 50 mile rides though.
You really need to reconsider this. I keep two tubes in a baggie, and that baggie goes into a jersey pocket every ride. Why? Because I needed two tubes twice, and one of those times was a 20 mile ride on a clear MUP - tire wire I had picked up on a previous ride had finally worked its way through both Gatorskins. I felt like the resident dumbass having to bum a tube off a fellow rider.

Two tubes, three CO2 cartridges and a patch kit - if I need more than that, it's karma catching up with me.
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Old 09-20-11 | 07:56 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by datlas
Here's the deal with preglued....

They are designed to be TEMPORARY (i.e. get you home). So they are best used on the road if you are in a hurry.
I've had one of these on a pinched tube for about a year, ~2000 miles. No issues...
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Old 09-20-11 | 07:56 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by LowCel
Really? That's your argument against carrying two tubes? I'll counter with carrying two tubes gives you double the chance of making it home if you flat.
Hehehe. A stats problem!
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Old 09-20-11 | 08:03 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by gsteinb
I have two tubes duct taped together with my levers and two CO2s. Fits nicely in my jersey pocket. I take it on all rides.
what device do you use/bring to use with the CO2s? later.
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Old 09-20-11 | 08:06 PM
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Tubeless... no flats at all...
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