sorry but whats with the zone topics? should i get a heart rate monitor or a watch that has one for training?

You got me. Its modern day mumbo jumbo for training using electronic devices.

Best way to get better at cycling is to get a traditional track bike with a fixed gear of 63-67 inches. Ride as much as you can maintaining a high pedaling rate. Cruising down hills in a 63" gear will get your rpm way high. After several weeks go back to your road bike and you'll fly.

I was responding to DDF's link which is a 6 zone system. So everything you said after this needs to be revised in that context.

I've also seen 7 zones-- 1 through 4 and then 5a, 5b, 5c-- for whatever it's worth.

Nope. Many zone systems split where you're producing lactate slower than you can process it and where lactate production exceeds your clearing capacity in zone 4 or at the 4/5 split. Whether you get one zone (5), one and a half (4 and 5), two (5 + 6), or three (5a, 5b, 5c) after that doesn't change that zone 5 is past your lactate threshold which is the pace a motivated and somewhat trained person can maintain for an hour. If some one is doing an hour in the middle of zone 5 they have the zones wrong and if it's not painful they're really wrong.

Using ddf's link dropping my age in it suggests a 181 maximum heart rate and shows my Zone 5 starting at 161 which is 1 beat shy of my lactate heart rate and ends at 171. 161 is not pleasant after 20 minutes and 171 is about where I produce my maximum 10 minute power which is painful at the end. The text suggests it's good for a 10 or 25 mile time trial implying that the bottom is supposed to be LTHR which is about what motivated people with some training can manage for an hour with going any harder not possible and the overall effects farther into that zone 5 somewhere between not pleasant and painful.

Putting my actual maximum heart rate of 192 in it starts zone 5 at 170 and ends it at 180. That's good for 5-10 minutes ending with pain (hardly a 10 or 25 mile time trial) and illustrates that zones defined around maximum heart rate aren't useful.

That's Friel's system which attempts finer divisions past LTHR. The obvious ones are just past LTHR, VO2 max, and neuromuscular power although moving up the ladder heart rate lag exceeds the time you can sustain an effort so the meanings become hazier.

Good lord BF, I love ya.

Only in this forum will the pedants get their panties so bunched up that they totally lose the OP.

"Er... zone system 5000... er... er... [indiscernible nerd talk]... er... er... lacate... pain threshold... er... flux capacitor... heart rate... er... er... plutonium gigawatt... er... [someone blows nut]..."

OP post count does not always equal right answers. Unlike some I did not take the winter off, Rule 9! Not that my results are of any significance and by your posts you represent yourself as much younger and in better physical condition than myself however I'll share what has worked for me. You want speed first you have to put in the time in the saddle. As others have already mentioned that alone will get you faster to a point. Add in some structured workouts where you focus on speed and speed plus duration and you will exceed where you would be simply by putting in the miles. Rest is important, but rest does not have to equal total lack of activity. Some folks simply do not know "how to train properly." So the answer could be a yes and a yes but it really depends on where the asker is starting from.

And hammering to me is anything beyond 80% effort; listen to your body and you'll know what that means to you without the expense of HRM and other electronics. Cycling is really not all that different from running IMHO and if you look at the changes to the mile record since Bannister broke 4:00 in 1954 the record changed 16 times until into the 80's. Twice in the 90's. HRM are pretty common today and yet they do not seem to help runners train any better. For what it is worth I broke 5:00 min in 9th grade and improved each year until my peak 11th grade with a time of 4:36, still a School JV record. I think it is fair to say I have a bit of understanding of training principals. Ride more, ride hard, HTFU and it does not get easier you just go faster are words to live by. If it gets easier you are slacking and you need to meditate on Rule 5! Word!

I don't know about y'all, but i'm in the no zone when I go for a ride.

Here's a little trick that I use and am sure was not my original idea: Start by trying to average x mph for x miles. If you ride 12 miles, try to average 12 mph. Move on up the scale on longer rides (where there is obviously a limit). I have plateaued at about 17, but will keep trying to get to 20.

I have done the same. There is an element of fun and expectation mixed in.

+3,827

True it's easy to overthink this stuff, but it's also true that a lot of the huge increases in the ability of amateur cyclists and triathletes to approach professional caliber times has been attributed to powermeter usage. This has really shown up in the Kona Ironman, where the gap between pros and amateurs, particularly on the bike leg, has markedly narrowed as of late, and a lot of coaches attribute this to the number of amateurs who now have access to powermeters and coaching with PMs.

Of course, powereters still isn't essential for performance. Still, having a functional knowledge of HR levels and efforts is very helpful for training. A lot of people hate the bike trainer because they have no idea how it's affecting their training or how hard they should be working on it (other than ow...it hurts.) Once you start putting power targets as an objective measure on that trainer, it totally changes how you approach it, from "ummmm, just ride until it hurts and hope you get better?" to "I know that if I'm riding at this wattage for this long, I'm definitely improving!"

Yeah, the but the cool thing is that we all ride for different reasons. I have a friend who is a total gear head. Has every monitor and electronic device known to man. He analyzes his ride data, his heart rate, etc. I say whatever keeps you pedaling is a good thing right?

I don't want to over-simplify things, but the key is just HTFU. I mean push yourself on a regular basis. Ride with people who are faster than you and fight to stay with them. Don't avoid the hills. Ride every day. Don't give up. I can tell you it isn't the faster rider who wins the race, it is the ride who can endure the most pain. Harden up, pedal faster, ride till your legs ache and you want to throw up and then stand up and go a little faster. Trust me, I am not trying to sound like a tough guy here, but I think you would be surprised at what you are capable of if you're willing to push yourself.

OP:

I have found that the best way to get faster is to ride with faster riders. Here's a list of some of the local Sacto group rides: https://www.facebook.com/SacramentoRiverRide/info

Come out, hang on as long as you can, come back next ride and hang on a little longer.

Only ride downhill and you'll get the average mph up a lot.

Yup, I agree. HTFU.

Still, at some point when you're giving it your all, it's helpful to get feedback on how you're doing. Objective numbers.

Trainers are the extreme but perfect example of this. You can HTFU all you want and more on those things, but there's a world of difference keeping motivated to done Zone5 work when you know that your power numbers are increasing, versus trying to keep at it for weeks, if not months at a time, with zero feedback on how much power or improvement you're actually doing. (I don't think it's even mentally possible to keep it up for more than a few weeks at max intensity sessions without some sort of feedback.)

Even group rides are an example of this - by riding with stronger riders, you're getting feedback on the kind of power to put up to stay in a range of improvement. It's really very similar to training with a powermeter, just with a human in place to push you (which is usually better, I agree.) Those who just say 'screw the technology just HTFU and ride with faster riders" are actually espousing the same exact principles the techie guys are advocating.

Yes, but with far fewer syllables.