how many simply do there own mechanical work, trust only yourself basically.
02-16-15, 11:06 PM
#51
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Really, not a big deal in the grand scheme of things if you want to replace the chain and cassette at the same time... just ride the chain until it's obviously done. I take the use three chains and swap every 1000 miles or so approach in an attempt to get as much life as possible out of my cassettes (two or three chains rotated in and out over the life of the cassette). To each his/her own. My point is really just that this issue is not a good one to evaluate a mechanic's ability over.
Now, if we want to talk about shops screwing things up... my cousin took his bike into a shop to have a chain replaced and the mechanic told him that it was installed backwards (not possible, it was a SRAM chain, not Shimano unidirectional). Not only that, but he told him that the cassette was shot and needed replaced (it wasn't shot, not even close). To add insult to injury, the mechanic made the new chain too long and the derailleur cage was rubbing the chain severely when in the 11t or 13t cogs. Besides that, I've seen a couple of bad builds out of REI. Beyond that, I've been lucky with my interaction with shop mechanics although I tend to do work myself since I'm a trained mechanic and on a tight budget.
02-17-15, 02:24 AM
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The thread on the LBS and various problems has me wondering about repairs and such. I figured if I was going to cycle in need to learn to do things myself or I was at the mercy of someone else's time. The LBS around here are ok but I am sure that one of them really does not have a mechanic that could build a wheel and as such one of the mechanic told me he could not build wheels. I learned a little at a time and over the years can do just about what a want on a bike. Seems to me bikes are not complicated like cars and why ever allow someone to work on you bike unless you really can trust them.
It seems to me when I go into LBS they assume I really do not know much and in the end when asking serious questions they cannot give answers. Just recently the LBS mechanic told me the longest he had ever seen a 10 speed chain last was 3500 miles. I told him I did not put much stock in chain checkers I prefer a steel ruler. He told me that was not as accurate? I almost felt like bringing in my Wilier with it 10 spd Shimano 6701 chain with 5000 miles and almost zero stretch. I do keep it clean and not really hilly here, I avoid rain and mud, but I just wonder about the mechanic. He was maybe in his late 20's nice enough but maybe lacked some experience?
I was in at a local Performance Store a while back when in the Chicago area and once the saleperson found out I knew bikes he started asking me questions. In fact we had a great discussion. I left the store thinking at least they did not pretend they had all the answer, of course neither to I. I in the end I want to do all my own maitanence and mechanical work. Make sure the QR is on right, brakes centered, shifting is crisp and accurate, and I take responsibility that the bike is running correct. Taking it the LBS could be hit or miss and much more expensive for a small investment in tools and time.
It seems to me when I go into LBS they assume I really do not know much and in the end when asking serious questions they cannot give answers. Just recently the LBS mechanic told me the longest he had ever seen a 10 speed chain last was 3500 miles. I told him I did not put much stock in chain checkers I prefer a steel ruler. He told me that was not as accurate? I almost felt like bringing in my Wilier with it 10 spd Shimano 6701 chain with 5000 miles and almost zero stretch. I do keep it clean and not really hilly here, I avoid rain and mud, but I just wonder about the mechanic. He was maybe in his late 20's nice enough but maybe lacked some experience?
I was in at a local Performance Store a while back when in the Chicago area and once the saleperson found out I knew bikes he started asking me questions. In fact we had a great discussion. I left the store thinking at least they did not pretend they had all the answer, of course neither to I. I in the end I want to do all my own maitanence and mechanical work. Make sure the QR is on right, brakes centered, shifting is crisp and accurate, and I take responsibility that the bike is running correct. Taking it the LBS could be hit or miss and much more expensive for a small investment in tools and time.
Now, I am older and lazier, and I rather go to my friend's bike shop, chat a little and let him do the work.
02-17-15, 06:46 AM
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I do most of my repair/replacement work. I've built up several older bikes and spruced up several more for friends. Brakes and derailleurs sometimes can be tricky to get perfectly set but it just takes me longer to get it done. Buying the tool to hold the cables tight while I work was a big help.
Worst job I tackled myself? Removing an old bottom bracket from my Fuso. I had to hacksaw the sleeve into pieces in order to get it out. The C & V forum helped me out on that one.
Worst job I tackled myself? Removing an old bottom bracket from my Fuso. I had to hacksaw the sleeve into pieces in order to get it out. The C & V forum helped me out on that one.
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02-17-15, 08:02 AM
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Why does everyone stress so much about how long chains last? Who gives a ****... Ultegra 11spd chains can be had for $20 online and lower end or 9 or 10spd ones are even less. You could replace your chain every damn month at that price and it wouldn't affect your finances at all.
I like having the peace of mind that my chain cleaning technique minimizes wear. Less wear on chain equals less wear on my $35 Ultegra cassette.....ok it's because of ocd. I admit it!
02-17-15, 08:36 AM
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i can do some minor stuff but some i just do not care to even try. mainly gears, adjusting the 11 speed shimano suck (for me), not much room for play. i attempted and although i got it, i also busted the cable. simple swaps like stems, forks, brakes, seats/posts, wheels, all pretty simple. i am skeptical on the BB30 as if it is not packed right, from what i have read, it will make some noises.
02-17-15, 09:53 AM
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But...but....you're disagreeing with SHELDON BROWN, 'cause that's what HE says about chain wear 
Isn't there some kind of rule against disagreeing with Sheldon? (I think the penalty for breaking that rule is 39 or 53 lashes with a dirty brake cable housing! 
)
Isn't there some kind of rule against disagreeing with Sheldon? (I think the penalty for breaking that rule is 39 or 53 lashes with a dirty brake cable housing! )
02-17-15, 10:17 AM
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At this point, I do a lot of my own work. Not all, but most. When I first got into riding a few years back and didn't know much I was very fortunate to make friends with a mechanic on a group ride. Foudn out we had a lot in common and started hanging out. He never charged me for anything other than parts, hooked me up on numerous occasions with free stuff and got me a job p/t at the same shop when they needed some extra help. Long story short, we sold out to a chain that went bankrupt. He taught me a lot, is a pretty darn good mechanic and enjoy building wheels, too. Now, every week or so I will go over to his house and we will wrench on a project bike, or someone else's bike. I bring the beer, he has the tools and spare parts galore.
Working for that shop also had me meet other people, and when we got a shop in town to replace the two that closed, I was already friends with that manager and trust if I had to take my cannondale in for warranty repair or anything, they would take good care of it.
There's plenty left for me to learn, but I gots people and enjoy wrenching.
Working for that shop also had me meet other people, and when we got a shop in town to replace the two that closed, I was already friends with that manager and trust if I had to take my cannondale in for warranty repair or anything, they would take good care of it.
There's plenty left for me to learn, but I gots people and enjoy wrenching.
02-17-15, 10:32 AM
#59
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On the chain discussions, the new 11 speed Super Record cassette can go close to $500 depending on ratio.
The key is to protect the cassette, by changing chains at around $50 a pop, before the chain wears the sprockets to a new tooth geometry. Although the "pitch" of the chain always stays the same, the distance between the rollers change with wear and will accordingly change tooth geometry. This all works fine, until a new chain is fitted, which then results in incompatible geometry. The chain will skip sprocket teeth under extreme power, making it necessary to replace the entire drive train.
Campy specifies a range (cannot be measured with a ruler, any high quality vernier, digital, or dial caliper will do the job) and provided one sticks within their stretch range measurement, the tooth geometry match between sprockets and chain will always remain compatible between new and old chains. Any wear on the sprocket will always take the geometry shape of an in specification chain, resulting in indefinite cassette life.
No point in swapping chains around at 1000 miles as some do. As long as the chain stays in spec, things are good.
On the other hand, a Shimano 105 cassette can be purchased for around $50, so one might as well ride until the whole drive train needs replacement, which will be to the point before where the chain almost fails. This will be several miles in comparison. I have ridden chains where the rollers start coming apart, a new cassette and chain without bothering about the front chain rings and I am good again.
About cleaning chains, my personal practice is probably a bit unconventional coming from high performance motorcycles. I only clean the chain once, being when I remove it from its original packaging, I soak it in Kerosene and remove all the grease lubricant. Then I fit the chain and lubricate it with Dupont Chain Saver. From there I will re-lube with Dupont when needed, the chain and derailleur never gets cleaned again for the life of the chain. Dupont won't tell you their secret about the Esters they use, but the chain remains clean and dirt is shed automatically.
The key is to protect the cassette, by changing chains at around $50 a pop, before the chain wears the sprockets to a new tooth geometry. Although the "pitch" of the chain always stays the same, the distance between the rollers change with wear and will accordingly change tooth geometry. This all works fine, until a new chain is fitted, which then results in incompatible geometry. The chain will skip sprocket teeth under extreme power, making it necessary to replace the entire drive train.
Campy specifies a range (cannot be measured with a ruler, any high quality vernier, digital, or dial caliper will do the job) and provided one sticks within their stretch range measurement, the tooth geometry match between sprockets and chain will always remain compatible between new and old chains. Any wear on the sprocket will always take the geometry shape of an in specification chain, resulting in indefinite cassette life.
No point in swapping chains around at 1000 miles as some do. As long as the chain stays in spec, things are good.
On the other hand, a Shimano 105 cassette can be purchased for around $50, so one might as well ride until the whole drive train needs replacement, which will be to the point before where the chain almost fails. This will be several miles in comparison. I have ridden chains where the rollers start coming apart, a new cassette and chain without bothering about the front chain rings and I am good again.
About cleaning chains, my personal practice is probably a bit unconventional coming from high performance motorcycles. I only clean the chain once, being when I remove it from its original packaging, I soak it in Kerosene and remove all the grease lubricant. Then I fit the chain and lubricate it with Dupont Chain Saver. From there I will re-lube with Dupont when needed, the chain and derailleur never gets cleaned again for the life of the chain. Dupont won't tell you their secret about the Esters they use, but the chain remains clean and dirt is shed automatically.
Last edited by ColnagoC40; 02-17-15 at 10:49 AM.
02-17-15, 10:56 AM
#60
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On the chain discussions, the new 11 speed Super Record cassette can go close to $500 depending on ratio.
The key is to protect the cassette, by changing chains at around $50 a pop, before the chain wears the sprockets to a new tooth geometry. Although the "pitch" of the chain always stays the same, the distance between the rollers change with wear and will accordingly change tooth geometry. This all works fine, until a new chain is fitted, which then results in incompatible geometry. The chain will skip sprocket teeth under extreme power, making it necessary to replace the entire drive train.
Campy specifies a range (cannot be measured with a ruler, any high quality vernier, digital, or dial caliper will do the job) and provided one sticks within their stretch range measurement, the tooth geometry match between sprockets and chain will always remain compatible between new and old chains. Any wear on the sprocket will always take the geometry shape of an in specification chain, resulting in indefinite cassette life.
No point in swapping chains around at 1000 miles as some do. As long as the chain stays in spec, things are good.
On the other hand, a Shimano 105 cassette can be purchased for around $50, so one might as well ride until the whole drive train needs replacement, which will be to the point before where the chain almost fails. This will be several miles in comparison. I have ridden chains where the rollers start coming apart, a new cassette and chain without bothering about the front chain rings and I am good again.
About cleaning chains, my personal practice is probably a bit unconventional coming from high performance motorcycles. I only clean the chain once, being when I remove it from its original packaging, I soak it in Kerosene and remove all the grease lubricant. Then I fit the chain and lubricate it with Dupont Chain Saver. From there I will re-lube with Dupont when needed, the chain and derailleur never gets cleaned again for the life of the chain. Dupont won't tell you their secret about the Esters they use, but the chain remains clean and dirt is shed automatically.
The key is to protect the cassette, by changing chains at around $50 a pop, before the chain wears the sprockets to a new tooth geometry. Although the "pitch" of the chain always stays the same, the distance between the rollers change with wear and will accordingly change tooth geometry. This all works fine, until a new chain is fitted, which then results in incompatible geometry. The chain will skip sprocket teeth under extreme power, making it necessary to replace the entire drive train.
Campy specifies a range (cannot be measured with a ruler, any high quality vernier, digital, or dial caliper will do the job) and provided one sticks within their stretch range measurement, the tooth geometry match between sprockets and chain will always remain compatible between new and old chains. Any wear on the sprocket will always take the geometry shape of an in specification chain, resulting in indefinite cassette life.
No point in swapping chains around at 1000 miles as some do. As long as the chain stays in spec, things are good.
On the other hand, a Shimano 105 cassette can be purchased for around $50, so one might as well ride until the whole drive train needs replacement, which will be to the point before where the chain almost fails. This will be several miles in comparison. I have ridden chains where the rollers start coming apart, a new cassette and chain without bothering about the front chain rings and I am good again.
About cleaning chains, my personal practice is probably a bit unconventional coming from high performance motorcycles. I only clean the chain once, being when I remove it from its original packaging, I soak it in Kerosene and remove all the grease lubricant. Then I fit the chain and lubricate it with Dupont Chain Saver. From there I will re-lube with Dupont when needed, the chain and derailleur never gets cleaned again for the life of the chain. Dupont won't tell you their secret about the Esters they use, but the chain remains clean and dirt is shed automatically.
02-17-15, 11:16 AM
#61
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Do it yourself. There are few things in life as satisfying for the price. Doesn't matter if its your hotrod, your kitchen sink or helping some crying little kid whose dinosaurs head broke off. Doesn't matter if you have the money to pay someone else to do it or not. If you maintain your bike, if it goes pear shaped out on the road, you may have a chance because you took a crack at it before. It's a bicycle man.. not the LHC. Get your hands dirty. Its fun. Oh and one more reason. A lot of people who work at bike shops are D#*chebags. ---- You know what I'm talkin bout.
02-17-15, 11:37 AM
#62
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02-17-15, 11:45 AM
#63
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I do all my own work because I can. OTOH there are a handful of mechanics I know and would willingly trust them.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
02-17-15, 11:51 AM
#64
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I'm definitely not the best person to do my own plumbing or dental work; the same is true of bike mechanic stuff beyond changing a flat. I like riding a bike, not working on one, and I have a job, so I can pay someone else to work on it.
02-17-15, 12:10 PM
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02-17-15, 12:11 PM
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I have the tools for most bicycle repair work, or if I don't I know someone who has something I can borrow. The only element of bike repair I don't mess with is wheel building/truing.
02-17-15, 01:01 PM
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Maybe if my wheel was a couple mm out of true, and it had a noticeable effect on my ride, but I was sure I could fix it with a couple turns of a spoke key, I'd do it myself, but most of my wheel problems in recent years have come after a crash/pothole-related spoke break. I've tried replacing the spoke myself, and have ended up taking the wheel to the LBS anyway. And for me, replacing a spoke is in the grey area between just getting that little wobble out, and assembling rim, hubs and spokes together from scratch.
02-17-15, 01:16 PM
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All of it. That guarantees it will be done right, and everything (apart from wheel building when not replacing an existing rim with an identical one) takes less time than driving to a LBS, parking, waiting, and driving home or driving, parking, dropping off, driving home, driving back, parking, picking up, and driving home.
02-17-15, 01:23 PM
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02-17-15, 01:45 PM
#71
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There are so many good wheel-truing and wheel-building videos on Youtube....and like most things, once you have a little knowledge and understand what you are doing, it is usually easy. (NOTE: That's one area I haven't meddled with yet- but i will when the need arises. Heck, I may just try my hand at wheel-building for the fun of it, and to say that I can!) -Watch a vid or two...it's not rocket surgery. If some hippy stoner teenager can do it, you probably can too.
02-18-15, 12:37 AM
#72
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After buying my first bike a few years ago, I started working on my bikes myself. It's really not that hard and having lots of instruction videos on Youtube helps quite a bit. Like anything, it just takes some time and patience to learn and practice but most of it is common sense. My problem is that I don't trust most shops to work on my bike when I know (or am arrogant enough to think 
) that I can do as good of a job. The only drawback is that I now have a chest of bike only tools whereas my Craftsman tools can be used for a number of different jobs.
I recently purchased a truing stand and Roger Musson's book and have started learning how to true my wheels and eventually build my own. It's amazing how out of true a new wheel can be. My last set of factory wheels weren't true out of the box and I've had to make some slight adjustments to it already. Disappointing considering how much I paid for them.
) that I can do as good of a job. The only drawback is that I now have a chest of bike only tools whereas my Craftsman tools can be used for a number of different jobs. I recently purchased a truing stand and Roger Musson's book and have started learning how to true my wheels and eventually build my own. It's amazing how out of true a new wheel can be. My last set of factory wheels weren't true out of the box and I've had to make some slight adjustments to it already. Disappointing considering how much I paid for them.
02-18-15, 10:36 AM
#73
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Haven't read all the posts, but I do 100% of my own work. That's way something is screwed up, it's perfectly clear where the blame lies and who is responsible for setting it right.
02-18-15, 02:22 PM
#74
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02-18-15, 06:18 PM
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I do all my own work - including wheel trueing and re-building, etc. I always tinkered with things - rebuilt small engines and big engines, since I was a young bloke and have always done bits and pieces to my bikes. Since I took up riding for fitness a couple of years back, this has continued and I've done some research online / Youtube with some things, as well as buying a host of bike-specific tools to enable me to do my own maintenance.
My local LBS are all very good, but it isn't fair to ask them to drop everything to do my job - NOW - when they have plenty of other jobs booked in. At times when I've had issues 'on the fly' they've been more than happy to help out straight away. It helps that the owner-operators of said LBS are all members and strong supporters of our local cycling club too!
cheers
My local LBS are all very good, but it isn't fair to ask them to drop everything to do my job - NOW - when they have plenty of other jobs booked in. At times when I've had issues 'on the fly' they've been more than happy to help out straight away. It helps that the owner-operators of said LBS are all members and strong supporters of our local cycling club too!
cheers