That's definitely not true. The differences are almost visible from the naked eye. But we know two different charts exist anyway, and I've taken a tape measure to both, and they are different.

I like it a lot. I think 27.2 seatposts look funny on large-tubed bikes.

edit:

I actually took the picture of both geo pics and put them on top of each other. I have no idea how one is noticeably more comfortable than the other, even the measurements seem super super close.

like, totally man, i totally know what you mean.
like, they changed headtubes from 1" to 1 1/8" but left the seatposts the same - it's just completely unbalanced! you gotta change the seatube also or it's a panzi biclicli

the exception is the wabi LIghtning! because the tube changes from this to that. all ninja like

I think it's the slacker seattube angle and top tube. Not as aggressive.

I can make any comment on the differences in comfort though. It's likely very minimal I think.

im pretty sure i orgasm EVERYTIME i see a Cinelli bike

you might want to get that looked at...

you should just buy some Cinelli stickers, much cheaper

No thank you

I think this is appropriate:

I don't think Mash can be equated to a sneaker culture.

Oh snap.

Mike Martin?

I don't see how this would be relevant. I mean in terms of the nature of it. The sneaker culture is certainly about hype, promoting items that appreciate in value, and, of course, money and status.

I think Mash definitely gets a lot of hype. But that's not something you blame it for. People get hyped on things. I think the main difference here is that the Mash team really does ride. It's not about having expensive bikes, hyping it, and then bragging about it. It doesn't seem like the guys who collect these sneakers are great basketball players or anything. That's what I think sneaker culture is about, though I could be wrong. I was never into sneaker culture.

man... way to make a man feel good about riding fixed gears...

Okay, I read the thread and the annotated posts.

I don't really understand how that means Mash is like a sneaker culture. At the very least you can give them credit for being riders. It's not like any of that hypebeast kind of thing. From what I gather you take the perspective of how the public perceives and develops around Mash rather than Mash itself. I get it, people get hyped about **** and go ape **** over things. It happens in the whole fixed gear scene, not just to Mash. Note that there is no explicit Mash team. It's not like a skate team. That 'badass marketing' that you seemed so bitter about doesn't even really happen. I'm sorry they did the TOC in the name of Mash. Should they have done it not under the name of Mash? I can't believe you want to reduce that to a commercial marketing stunt.

To say that Mash and its creators make tons of money off of the project based on extreme marketing and other forms of selling out--this is just not true.

Sigh, this has turned into a Mash thread.

Fixed gears have always been about either:
- Training (roadies using fixed gears for off-season cadence work)
- Making a reliable city bike on the cheap (no gears or derailleurs)
- Making something out of nothing (conversions)

"Fixie Boutiques" blossomed out of sneaker, skate, & urban clothing shops...not out of bike shops or co-ops. So now we have to add "Having a nice looking rare bike" to that list.

"They do, however, charge significantly more for the "Mash" branded stuff than any other comparable products."

Who is they? What Mash branded products?

It's true I have not been on bikeforums as long as you. That shouldn't discount everything I say though. It's just a join date.

If MASH doing the TOC was a marketing stunt, it was a hell of a marketing stunt. From what I gather and from talking to some of the riders, it wasn't a means for them to get money or for shameless self promotion. They wanted to see if they could do it and how it would be. I thought this would be a respectable thing--a group of guys want to do something particularly difficult for the sake of difficult (re: cycling), they have the means (Mash, Clif, whatever) to sponsor them and make it happen, and they do it. Should we be giving crap to professional riders who do the same thing but get paid to do it?

The truth is that Mash takes cycling actually rather seriously, it's not just about having the most expensive and nicest bike. A lot of their current riders are UCI registered, though do not race on the track. They race a lot of road and cross. They sport Mash kits, and Mike does whatever to help them out. What does a Mash kit in a cross race intend to market to? They don't have a cross frame with Cinelli. This may not be an objective point, but Mike is really not trying to make Mash a coveted limited edition collabo hype wave riding machine. I still don't find the connection with sneaker culture. To me, the Kagero and the Cannondale Track more embody that mentality than Mash.

I get drunk and come home and someone got Carleton all butt-hurt.

That's it. I'm hiring a baby-sitter.

I definitely have a personal connection, but prior to that I believed Mash to be just as you described it. I was surprised that it's more community oriented than it looks on the internet. I generally avoid even discussing it for the most part on these forums, but I thought it might be nice say something about it. I'm glad we did it civil though. I definitely didn't/don't want to start any beef.

I assumed "TOC was a marketing stunt" meant they did it to sell stuff. Isn't that what marketing is? I may have misunderstood you. I'm not claiming they are badasses for doing it. I just think it should get more rep than just being a marketing stunt. I don't think that's fair.

If my arguments are all over the place I apologize. My last point intended to cut the connection between a 'sneaker culture' and Mash. I think you understood it though.

Lastly, though I think skate culture is probably more accurate than sneaker culture, I guess it would be nice if we could just let Mash be Mash. I really don't think it's doing any tremendous harm on cycling, professional or otherwise, so it seems pointless (and I have exhausted my energy too) to try and say something about it. I don't think any judgments really need to be made.

should I go sit in the corner now?

It's cool man. I'm going to delete my comments now.

I'm cool if you are cool.



Now I gotta get back to wiring my computer on my bike. Leaving for a race tomorrow after work. I'm gonna suck this weekend in the regional championships.

Definitely cool. Good luck tomorrow!

Thanks!

Good luck Carleton!

^That's the one. Even though it's not the off season... and i don't ride any other bikes...

You guys both make good points. Some of them are too long to read. However, sneakers are a great choice for most occasions.

Good luck man!