I didn't catch your edit. When the stem is installed on the bike there really won't be much of a drop, really just looking for a level or close to level position. X2 will probably fit the bill.

No, but I do prefer tight geometry.

Chode stem ≠ tight geometry
/notscrod

Fixed.

Thanks

How would the position of the bars not affect the geometry of a bike setup?

You're using your words wrong.

"Tight geometry" generally refers to seat tube and head tube angles greater than 73 degrees as well as shorter front end and chain stay measurements.

"Chode stems" generally refer to stems too short for effective rider placement. Generally used by riders with a less than ideal amount of knowledge about how a bike is supposed to fit. This creates issues with the handling and rider comfort during different positions. You want a frame with a proper length top-tube so you can use an appropriate length stem (80/90-120mm)

I don't think you know what you're doing with respect to fitting.

Ok, so in your culture the word geometry refers only to the frame? Here is how I see it, when you position or adjust any of the contact or pivot points the riding geometry will change. What is proper about the lengths between 90mm and 120mm, or rather what is inappropriate about a 70mm stem?

Just picked up a 90mm Thomson X4 by the way, appreciate the advice Scrod and Yummy.

Frame geometry is frame geometry, regardless of what length stem you have or how big your britches are.

Would you not consider the saddle in relation to the handlebars, in relation to the pedals and so on geometry?

When referring to the geometry of a bike, no - because those are all variables that can change. As myself and others have told you, "geometry" refers to angles/length of a frame's tubes. You can change the height/length of your stem until you pass out. You cannot change the length or angle of your head tube.

That's irrelevant though, geometry can change, no?

What is your culture where frame geometry includes things that are not frame?

Is there some secret culture in Boston I don't know about? I have ridden in Boston many times, most riders seemed about as knowledgable as any other city. There are lots of high quality bike builders in the Boston area. So I am sure they know what they are talking about.

Maybe your culture is just you, if so keep going with that. It will make advice much easier to get.


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Read the things posted, you will learn things.

Geometry- The angles and measures of your frame. The length of the seat tube, top tube, headtube, and chain stays as well as the angles of the headtube and seattube.

Fit- The combo of the geometry of the frame, along with the placement of everything added to the bike. The height, angle, and location of the saddle. The height, angle and location of the bars. And the length of crank. If you are riding clipless sometimes the location of the cleats on your shoes is also included.

Geometry can never change on a frame, you can change all sorts of things about the fit.

I never mentioned frame geometry specifically, just geometry. Geometry is just the position of things and things in relation to each other. In your culture, the word geometry apparently only refers to the unchanging geometry of the frame, I wasn't aware of that. Not knocking your culture, relax.

Then you don't know what you're talking about.

The whole wide world of bicycles considers geometry the same way. It's not any culture, it's the status quo, for a reason.

Fitment or Fit is the word you're looking for.

For most people, 90-120mm will put distribute their weight appropriately, allow them to use all the positions offered by drop bars with good posture and present them with a comfortable fit when the saddle is positioned over the BB to maximize power.

80 and shorter do not allow these things to happen as easily as well as causing the bike to wander during climbing and feel sluggish and slow.

Your personal geometry can change (ie you grow or shrink) and your fit can change as your level of fitness does. But if frame geometry is tube length and angles of welds, the only way that can change is if you're a frame builder and cut the sucker apart change the miter and/or swap in new tubes and re-weld. Other than that, headtube angle and height, seattube angle and length, and top tube length aren't going to be doing much changing.

Though he does have flat bars on his bike if memory serves and some people like shorter stems with flat bars. Or maybe he just has short arms. I know I have crazy long monkey arms (and if memory serves Scrod does too), but for there to be an average there have to be people with as much shorter arms as we have longer arms.

Haha, what? Is this in regards to my reply to Kayce?

And I freely admit to not knowing what I'm talking about, but in the spirit of the late Rodney King, I just wonder if we can't all just get along.

Despite what people think, the culture of SSFG on bike forums is one of help and consideration. We want people to ride bikes, the right ones. So we are here to help out and give advice.

But when people come on and are arrogent without and knowledge, and refuse to take advice we turn on them. There is no reason to waste our time helping people that don't care. So go back and read the advice people have given you.

Try again, people will be nice if you are too.

Flat bars don't abrogate the basic tenets of fitment. A shorter top tube/better handlebar design is more appropriate than a shorter stem.

That makes sense, thanks dude.

Ok, what I said was riding geometry, I never mentioned the frame geometry. I'm aware this can't change much, haha. What I meant to say having this explained was riding position, this is helpful. Thanks.

I don't know where you apparently took offense, but you're the only one who seems to be upset. Everyone else is helpful. Internet communication is hard for you.

True, just for some reason lately I've seen a lot of people riding mountain bikes with short stems. Not saying it's right, just had seen a lot of that lately and that got me thinking.

To be honest though, since mtb riders on flat bars are typically grasping the bar at the distance of the stem from the fork, while when I ride on drop bars I'm grabbing my bars the length of the stem plus the length of the ramps from the fork, you'd think that flat bar riders would want a longer stem not a shorter one. Obviously, I'm missing something vital like mountain bikes having a longer top tube to account for that or something equally obvious. Like I said, I know nothing.

Aww, you're so cute Scrod.

:lol:

Tyler, when bike people say "tight geometry" they usually mean something like the fact that the wheels are closer together which makes for a more responsive, more aggressive and harsher ride. You said that you wanted a shorter stem which indicates that you are looking to be less stretched out and thus having a less aggressive, less harsh ride so the term that you were using was in direct contradiction to the result. As for proper stem length, it is often suggested that the front of your hands should end up directly behind a position directly above the front axle. This is somewhat shorter on frames with tight geometry than on road bikes but it is more dependent on the handlebars.

/still not scrod gosh darnit