Hello,

I have ridden a basic steel track frame "Urbanite Track Frame" from a local shop for the last few years. It has been fine, but now I am looking for something new, and I would like something a bit higher end/nicer.

I have my eye on an Affinity Lo Pro, but I am not 100% on it yet.

Nothing is really fixed for the parts either. I am excited to do a new build and pick out part, but I do have a wheel set (velocity deep v's) and parts from my old build that I can use while I am finding new parts.

What would you suggest as a nice, good quality (and good looking) steel frame?

I am also a little bit interested in aluminum frames. I love the look of LOW, Bianchi Super Pista, Cinelli and all that stuff but I don't really want a frame that is too uncomfortable for street riding.

Price?
Have you checked out Wabi?

Do you like the lo pro geometry though? It might feel really tight or cramped coming from a relaxed geometry - just something to consider.

I love my Leader 722ts. They only make the 722 "Heritage" now - but that frame looks nice too. Check it out at least. A lot of people on his forum love there 722's.

funny enough i just bought a Mercier Kilo TT with the fancy "black magic" paint (which turned out to be pretty soft) and I just sold it this evening. The guy who bought it came to pick it up with his friend who had a 722 Heritage. it looked pretty decent.

I just read some forum threads about leader it didn't seem too positive? It seemed to indicate that Leader stuff was kind of Low end for aluminum and not as stiff as Cinelli stuff. They were talking more about the 721 and 725, though, but the 722 was mentioned.

How do you find the ride quality and all that stuff? I have not really ridden any aluminum frames before so I don't really know what it's like. I was talking to a friend who has a Super Pista and he said it can be pretty harsh sometimes.


I love the look of the "pursuit" geometry but I have not tried it out. that is the main thing holding me back from making the purchase. I know the leader 722 says it's pursuit style geometry but it doesn't really look like it in a lot of the pictures ? Anyway just judging by the seat/bar height in a lot of the pictures of the Lo Pro I think I can make it work. I have always ridden with my seat high and the bars fairly low and they were flat bars on my old bike.


the affinity is around $500, but i can do more than that if i really like it. Wabi bikes look does look nice. I kind of want something that is a little different looking though.

How old were the threads? I haven't ridden a leader yet but I've done tons of research. I found a bunch of bad reviews and negative comments but they were mostly a few years old. Since then the reviews seem to be fine and it looks like leader is much better quality. Again I haven't ridden one yet but I did research and plan on buying one.

wabi lightning se complete doe is a columbi spirit boi doe w/ crabon 1.25, worth paying for the complete, the wheelsets are supposedly purdy light too. complete bike with front and back brakes (minus pedals) weighs like 16.5 lbs if im recalling correctly? i think for a light steel frame u cant go wong with columbu spirit

Lightning if 55 cm frame is 17.5
Classic is 18.4
Special is 18.6
No practical difference among any of them re: weight. I don't know if there is a difference in how they "feel" or not. I doubt I would know th difference. Lightning has a carbon fork but steel steerer. Special is lug tubes. Frames are road geo not track but high bottom bracket.

Depends who you talk to. I just saw/heard first hand a bunch of problems (really the same problem across a number of their aluminum frames) with quality of Leader bikes while visiting some friends a couple of weeks ago.

what's the difference between road geo and track geo? (I mean regular track frames that look similar to the wabi's, but pursuit frames)

the weight of the wabi's looks good for sure but the price of the lightning (frame) seems pretty high. the price for the fully build bike seems reasonable for what you get.

UPDATE: I had a look at the review of the Lightning on fixed gear gallery and it definitely seems like a great quality and light bike.

to be honest the prices are a bit suspicious when you compare them to other aluminum frames, am i wrong? they look okay but i am suspicious. I really like the look of the Kagero but at $850 I would go with another brand. I think i will probably avoid them whether that is justified or not I don't know.


I emailed Affinity with a bunch of questions on Saturday and I still haven't heard back from them. So I'm not sure what is going on there. Plus when you select black chrome in the color options it costs $166 more for the chrome plating. You only see that after, though because the black chrome is listed as $500 but when you click it you have to select the color again and then you see that.

Well it's really preference, but Leader 722 does come in both a "lo" and regular --- 722 Heritage - Frames - Shop | Leader Bike LLC and 722 Heritage Lo - Frames - Shop | Leader Bike LLC --- the 722 lo is way cheaper than the kageoro. Also, check out the thread "Leader Love" ( https://www.bikeforums.net/singlespee...er-love-8.html )

But you'll probably want to test-ride whatever bike you get. Even if your local bike shop doesn't have the exact bike, sometimes they'll have something in "similar geometry" that you can test ride. This is how I settled on my 722. I'm only stressing this because lo pro geometry isn't for everyone. I had an old khs flite 100 with aggressive geo that my brother gave to me and I hated riding it on the streets because of too much toe overlap and feeling cramped - but that's just me - i like the feeling of having more space.

All of this is to say, try test-riding "pursuit geometry" first, and this will help you narrow your choices one way or the other. bike shopping is fun but also work.

I have been emailing Richard from Wabi today and I think I am probably going to get a Jet Black Wabi Classic frame. I love the look of the pursuit geometry but I think I will go with something a little more comfortable for now.

I ride a Classic, it's a great frame for the money. The geometry is inspired by classic road racing frames and is very comfortable.

Seems like their 2013 frames ran into a lot of problems with cracking seatpost tubes again at least from what I've experienced.


I'd get an eai bare knuckle for a nice steel track bike.

Yes, I heard it has "road" geometry instead of track geo. still not entirely sure what that means/what the main differences are. I am excited to get it and start riding. I ordered a new bar (FSA Omega Compact, 40mm) and some other new things for this build. here is a list of parts that I have for the build.



The 44t front sprocket is from my old build. It needs to be replaced soon so I will replace the chain/cog/sprocket and I will probably do 46/16t this time. I wonder what the difference is between 47/17t and 16/46t?

I used to have Vittoria Rubino tires on my last bike, and they lasted for a long time with maybe one flat if that. Then I got a set of Continental Ultra sport tires - they are pretty fast, but I got quite a few flats with them. So this time I got a pair of Continental GATORSKIN tires, because I want to be able to ride long distances without much worry about getting a flat.

I had a set of orange Velocity Deep Vs from the last bike too. I was getting sick of the orange and I wanted to minimize the color on this build, so I ordered a black Deep V with machined sidewall for the front (the last one did not have a machined sidewall on the front) and my friend build up the black deep V with the old formula hub and spokes from the original wheel. Now I have the black deep v in the front and the orange non machined one at the rear. I might get a new set of wheels with better hubs at some point, for now Im okay with these Deep V's. If you have wheel suggestions I'd like to hear them!

When I sold my Mercier Kilo I included the old BB and old Cane Creek headset. I was looking for new headsets and BBs for the new Wabi build and I thought the FSA Orbit X looked nice. It just so happens that an FSA Orbit X actually comes with the Wabi classic frame! that was nice. I also talked with Richard via email and he was able to include a TEKTRO R540 brake and an FSA square taper bottom bracket, as well as a few other little things I needed. I bought a TEKTRO RL721 lever for my new Omega compact bar. I also have a 24mm clamp RL720 lever to cover more bar options.

I was looking at various different bullhorn bars including the Fyxation Rodeo Pursuit and Nitto RB 002. I ended up getting an FSA Omega compact for now, but I might also get a Rodeo Pursuit with 31.8mm clamp and then I could switch out bars sometimes.

What I really would like for pedals is a Soma/All City double cage and double leather straps. For now I just bought Zefal Christophe single leather straps and I will put them on my old SOMA single strap cages.


If you have any comments or suggestions about the build and the components I am happy to hear them.





As far as aesthetics for aluminum frames I like the Cinelli stuff a lot, but I'm not totally into the graphics on those. My favorite looking aluminum frames are the LOW frames. I checked the waiting list and it's down to 4 months now. Last time I checked it was 9 months, I think. Who knows maybe I will do something in the future with a LOW frame for more aggressive riding. For now I am going to build up the Wabi classic and that will be my bike for long distances.

Well, since you're happy to hear comments...

I'm not digging the wheels being different colors, I'd go with black on both.

Glad to see you considering the Fyxation bars - I'm from the Milwaukee area and think it's cool a bike company from there is getting noticed outside of Wisconsin. Now I need to be less of a hypocrite and buy something of theirs, lol.

I'm skeptical of the Sinz cranks - their stuff has always struck me as more fashion oriented than quality, and they seem like they'd look out of place on something as tastefully understated as a Wabi.

Overall though, it sounds like a solid build - hope to see some pics when it's done.

Hi,

I totally agree with you here. On my old bike they were both orange, so I changed the one to black just to have less orange when I was building the Mercier, but I would prefer them both to be silver/bare aluminum actually, but since I have the one black one now I will probably get another black rim and transfer my hub and spokes over to it like I did with the front. Then I can always sell the two black wheels together as a set later on and move to something nicer.

Another thing I might do if I get two black velocity deep v's is remove the stickers. I have seen some people do this and I agree it makes it look more low-key, the only part I don't like about it is that Deep V's without the stickers kind of look like those cheap no-name wheels that come bundled with every cheap prebuilt fixed gear, and I don't really like that look.

My ultimate favorite looking wheels right now is the Mavic Ellipse. Although I understand those would look better on a LOW frame or a Cinelli type build.

PS I noticed on the newer Velocity rims they now say "Made in USA" and "Born in Australia" where it used to say "Made in Australia" on the older ones. Has anyone noticed a difference in quality between the US version and the AUS versions?

This is the color that is my personal favourite (for a black frame, anyway)


The Fyxation bars I'm interested in because of the 40mm drop vs the 60mm drop on the Nitto RB-021. the RB-021 are my favorite aesthetically, but I think 40 is probably more comfortable. I don't really like the graphics on the Rodeo bars, but It's not a big deal. They seem to be great for the price. PS what's the deal with 25.4mm and 26mm clamp? it seems so close why make bars with both sizes? it's not like 31.8 and 26mm where there is obviously a difference. Anyway now that I have a stem with a 31.8mm clamp I would get the 31.8mm rodeo bar anyway.


The SINZ Cranks are another leftover from my old bike. I looked them up and the MSRP is about $50 for the ones I have. I have been using them for 4 years now with no issues, so I guess they are fine. They are just black with a white SINZ front on them, which is now darker since its old and worn.



Here is a few pictures of my short lived Mercier Kilo - which was also black, so you can get a rough idea of how it looked.

I've heard people on here say that Velocity's rims were better quality before they moved their manufacturing to the US. Having only had a set of the older Aussie made ones - which were really, really nice - I can't confirm that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

As for 25.4 vs. 26.0, it's just different standards - 25.4 is ISO, 26.0 is Italian. If you really want to go down the rabbit hole of seemingly pointless differences in standards, look up how many sizes of seat posts are out there, lol.

And I'm sure the Sinz cranks are fine, I'm just predisposed to being skeptical of anything with that logos that garish. You can always upgrade them later if need be.

I comes off very easily with nail polish remover.

^^ This. And if the images on Fyxation's site are accurate, the 31.8's that you're leaning towards only have a logo dead center, where your stem's gonna cover it anyway.

I've had a set of B43s that were from AUS and they were definitely stiff (but really heavy) and my original orange Deep V's are from AUS as well. The new black from rim is from USA but it seems fine too. I mean made in USA i still good, it's just different from before. Not sure if it has anything to do with the manufacturing location but my rear rim is pretty much perfectly true and my from one his a slight vertical wobble? I don't know if that's the right word, but there the seam is the height of the rim changes about 1mm or so and you can see that when you spin it and look close. I am not really knowledgeable with building wheels or anything but my friend who build the wheel for me said sometimes they are like that. horizontally it's pretty much perfect, though.

True on the seat post thing. My dad and I have a few nice mountain bikes around the house as well as some other family bikes and there is probably 10 different sizes of seat posts just in my basement alone. I have a nice Thompson on my Banshee morphine and my dad has a Thompson on his specialized. I know the mountain bike versions of the Thompson are heavier but they are not much different from the Easton EA50 I just picked up for my Wabi.

I totally agree. I am not (usually) into big logos and stuff, but I do like it sometimes if it's done nicely. I like the LOW logo on the Low frames, for example... The SINZ cranks are getting old I may just pick up a new set along with my new sprocket and cog. I actually do not mind the graphics on them, though. I think it's okay.

what about the black paint on the bar? I have the FSA omega for now, but I might pick up a rodeo 31.8mm as well and try that too. There is still "something" I like better about the Nitto, I can't really say for sure. The RB-021 seems very popular, or at least available on a lot of different websites. The RB-002 however does not seem like it's available from as many places. Not sure why that is?

Also -- I have already picked up some black parts (seat post, stem, bars etc) so it's a bit late for this now, but I am seeing how the Wabi classic full build it made with silver components and I kind of like that look, but I guess I will just use some black stuff for now since I already have it.


Here's my Australian Deep V and my USA version. I can't really say that I can feel a difference between them. I am sick of the orange, though, but I am not sure what rims I would move to next.

Any rim suggestions?

Just tried Scrod's nail polish remover suggestion on my black drops, and it lifted off a bit of the white writing on them, but didn't seem to affect the underlying black color. So I think it's safe.

As for rim suggestions, H Plus Son Archetypes are a deep-v alternative that get a lot of love here. Their TB14's are nice too, if you want to go for a more classic look.

I'll see about the nail polish remover later. For now I'm just going to try the FSA bars and I like the graphics on those.


I've seen the Archetypes before and I like the way the graphics are laid out on them. The graphics remind me a little bit of the Mavic Ellipse that I really like. I'm not sure about the 23mm width, though? is there a difference between running a 23c tire with a 23mm rim vs a 19mm rim? i kind of like the aesthetics of the 19mm rim.

The TB14 also has a nice classy look.

I'm not sure if either of those will be an upgrade, though? they seem to be similar quality. I know they are a bit lighter, though.