Calm down! As far as I can tell nobody is judging or attacking you. I'm not, I haven't been where you've been.

I'm just sayin', there's no need to get all bent out of shape just because someone doesn't share your opinion on this.

Of course it's in your right to say no, but that doesn't mean everyone else would, or should, have done the same thing.

Dear Erick -

Please allow me to outline the parameters again.

They called Sunday afternoon to ask about staying Monday evening.
I said, "Yes."

They called Monday midday to say that they were not able to get to a bike shop in the previous town on Sunday and could I make it Tuesday evening, instead. They said the bike shop was closed on Sundays which doesn't exactly comport with the facts - but I let it pass.

I said, "Yes" again. But I said that I had an engagement and that I would like them to arrive before 7:00p.
They said that it would be no problem.
I also asked them to call from the rest area / c-store when they were halfway.
(There is nothing else to delay a person other than the rest area - no towns, no stopping points.)
It is 68 miles between the town where they were and my community.

Tuesday was cool - 72 degrees - and breezy with a tailwind for them.
The terrain is moderately rolling.
They had indicated that they were on a cross-country ride.
So, 68 rolling miles after you have already done 2000 is a cakewalk.

They called at 3:00p and said that they were at the rest stop but that they had started out later than expected. (When I mentioned some features - mileage and terrain leading up to the rest stop - they seemed oddly unfamiliar.) Since the rest stop is 28 miles away with weather conditions ideal, I said that they should still have little problem getting here by 6:00p or 7:00p at the latest. They agreed. They had not arrived by 7:25p. They did not call. They had not arrived by 9:00p - no messages. The final 10 miles into town are on a ridge with excellent cell phone reception.

<<<>>>

The pieces did not add up.
The bike shop may have just been a little fib.
But they made no effort to leave even reasonably early on Tuesday morning.
Even like 10:00a.

It's clear that they had a cell phone.
I am aware of the coverage in the area - generally not good.
And am especially aware where it IS good.

Two women with mechanical problems would receive assistance in Wyoming.
From local drivers offering help, water, phone calls if their phone was dead.
(I am certain that women would stop for two women on the side of the road, too.)
Not to mention the highway patrol - if the issue was one of safety with strangers.

As I said earlier, the pieces did not add up.
There was always some sort of excuse.
And I did not buy them.

Perhaps I should have used the term "Partying" rather than drugging.
Yes, people who are biking across the country have different schedules -
But my experience is that they rarely leave after noon consistently -
Unless they are in the party mode.

As a further note - When the women did call at 9:30,
the comment about the flat tire and the accident was tacked on at the end.
It seems odd that you would say, "By the way I had a flat and fell off my bike, too."
AFTER you had spoken for a while.

Don't you think that the usual conversation would start - -
"I'm so sorry that we're getting in so late but it has been a horrendous day." Hmm?
Instead, it sounded to me like some pretty lame excuses called up from the files.

<<<>>>

I'm not sure what the reasons were - but I feel no obligation to ferret everything out.
It is practically impossible that they left the other town in the morning, called from the midway point at 3:00p, and had a flat/spill - and still could not arrive before 9:30p with no phone call or message. I'm not sure which parts were untrue - but as is so often the case for those who spin tales - it requires more and more spinning.

<<<>>>

I have hosted many people in my home - via Warmchowers, Couchsurfing, and just folks I see coming thru town. I usually offer them their own room and bath, laundry facilities, dinner and breakfast, local sightseeing if they wish, computer time etc., etc., etc. I have also received incredible hospitality over the years from people I have met touring - including one person who posts on BikeForums.

I would love to be able to live in a world where everyone is filled with peace and love and generosity. Sadly, such is not the case. I was nearly killed by a homicidal ex-con on a bike trip a dozen years ago - so you will excuse my reluctance to let anyone and everyone into my home. Even though I am a guy. Even though these were two young women. (One should not forget Aileen Wuornos.)

After all was said and done - there were too many factors that simply did not add up. At best these young women were simply discourteous - at worst, who knows? They had available to them other lodging - motels and camping - within blocks of my house.

John perhaps the only mistake you made was posting it here at bf in the first place.

No regrets.

Perhaps some folks will realize that it's a good idea to let people know about changes of plans.
If you are dealing with a "Get here whenever" person then it makes no difference. If you a staying with a person who likes to know or who has other obligations - then it really does make a difference.

Nah, it's a good thread and relaying the story may be beneficial to people going forward. The only mistake was getting too defensive after one person said they disagreed. It was just...well, a bit harsh.

I stayed with John (jamawami) last year at his house on my little bike tour from St Louis over to Yellowstone (ok it was supposed to be Oregon, but that's how far I got). John was the most gracious and generous host anyone could ask for - he completely opened up his home to me, spent a lot of time, and even took me for a little day trip up into the hills in his truck Fred. Of course we knew each other somewhat personally already via Crazyguyonabike, and he had helped me plan out the tour (in fact he planned it out completely for me). He's always lending his extensive experience on crazyguyonabike to help people who are looking for good routes across remote parts of America. All this is just by way of saying, he is one of the most generous people I know.

Everybody has a limit, a point where the big red B.S. alarm bells start ringing and you just say "enough". That doesn't make you liberal or conservative, it makes you a real human being. Only someone who was pathologically insecure and mousey would let strangers walk all over them all the time. John's obviously not such a person, as he said he has a life and has the right to expect the courtesy of reasonable communications from people if they aren't going to show up on time. From his descriptions of how this one went, I would agree that these people were treating him like a free hotel, rather than a gracious host. In their minds, I think, they were just seeing him as a resource to be used, rather than a person who was trying to help them. I see this all the time, as I outlined at length in my previous post on this thread. The moochers tend to ruin it for everybody else, since they harden people and make them think twice about helping others.

Having said all that, I also should add that I've had a few really good experiences with hosting bicycle tourists. We had a very pleasant couple stay with us back in St Louis, they were coming from Chicago and on their way to California on Route 66. They were just sweet youngsters, we took them to Whole Foods for a load up on groceries and had a great dinner, and they were on their way the next day. It was great. I think probably most bicycle tourists are like this. On another occasion we had Victor Weinreber (another crazyguyonabike) stay with us - he was on a somewhat epic ride, and again we already knew each other, and he stayed for a week. Super nice guy, no problems whatsoever. In fact I made him stay a little longer so we could finish watching Battlestar Galactica on DVD!

I think the thing with people is, you have to take each new person without laying any of the baggage left by other asshats on them. It's just not fair to do that. But at the same time you have to take general precautions based on experience... for me currently, being on the Pacific Coast route, and seeing how many "homeless" people are always trying to mooch change of me around Eureka (some of them seeming to have a lot of their possessions on a bicycle) I just find myself being a bit more cautious about opening up my home. Like I said before, it's a bit easier when you're "off the beaten track", I think, since any bicycle tourists are more likely to be "real". Here, on the pacific coast highway, you just never know, it's more of a crapshoot.

It's interesting that someone commented that maybe I have some "conservative" in me, because I have these mixed views about hosting people. This is a bit silly - of course we all have both liberal and conservative sides, it's like yin and yang, it would be unhealthy to be completely one or completely the other. It's about balance and common sense (and, of course, where you draw THAT line is what politics is all about, so we probably shouldn't go there). It's all just opinions, after all, and we throw our hat in the ring and see who spits on it.

Neil

Isn't that standard operating procedure here in the People's Republic of Touring? After all, why post to a discussion forum if people might disagree with you?

I think that I would be annoyed if I had had the experience described by jamawani, posted it here, and then had others describe my behavior as "harsh". That particular word indicates judgment and strong disapproval. If someone disagrees with jamawani's decision, I think that could be conveyed in a manner which is less "harsh". And I believe it was useful for this warm showers experience to have been raised here.

Even if those 2 cyclists had followed all of the rules as well as kept their word to him, I feel it would be perfectly acceptable for jamawani or any other host to change their mind when the cyclists finally showed up at his door if something didn't feel right. Like jamawani, I have been on both ends of this, having hosted people via warmshowers and other means, and having been hosted. Like jamawani, I once escaped from a life-threatening situation while touring from someone who offered me "hospitality". And as I previously described, I once had a cyclist I hosted essentially steal from me by furtively making international phone calls from my home. Those two experiences are undoubtedly a part of me when I am making decisions about who may sleep in my home, and where I sleep outside of my home.

Each of us gets to decide who we will allow to stay in our homes, and what the rules are of that stay. jamawani's potential guests broke the rules (perfectly reasonable rules IMO), and jamawani made his decision accordingly. I do not think it is fair for any of us to pass judgment on him. Hopefully, those two women learned a lesson and won't treat potential future hosts in such a discourteous and cavalier manner.

I read this post the night before I left for Greybull Wyoming to visit friends. Friday the 31st, while I was in Greybull, I saw two girls headed toward Cody loaded down. Strange thing was it was 9:30 pm, no lights or reflectors on their bikes. Not a good idea.

It very likely could have been them.
That was the way they were heading.
The time frame is right.

Here's another thought:
If they are out practically every night at 9:30 riding -
They are putting themselves at all kind of risk.
And they end up wherever - clueless and in the dark.
Plus, exhausted.

Then the next day they sleep til noon and ride past dark again.
Wouldn't it be smarter to call it quits at a reasonable hour?
Or is the schedule so important that there can be no deviations?
Playing "catch-up" on a long bike tour sucks.
And it invites accidents.

Hard to say what they were doing. I agree that it is dangerous if they are riding without lights/reflectors in the dark. With proper care to be visible (proper lights and reflectors) I don't see anything wrong with riding in the dark. It is asking for trouble waiting to find lodging or a campsite at 9:30 PM.

On the "exhausted" comment, they may not be all that tired. For all we know they start at 4:30 in the afternoon.

I personally turn in early and in hot weather prefer to start an hour or more before daylight, and enjoy that hour or two of riding in the dark. I rarely ride after dark in the evening when on tour and never plan on it. Once in a while it just happens.

Yikes!
What is this world coming to?
I would guess that the proportion of "conservative" in you -
Is about the same as salt in the sea - just enough to make it salty.

Best - J

I learned about the "homeless" and the panhandlers when I worked in DC. Same people. Same place. Same "line". Day after day after work day.

Their "job" was panhandling. Most took the colder months off.

I recall one guy who took up position around 10 am and stayed until I know not when, every work day, holding open one of the two doors that made up half of a set of double doors between Union Station and the Metro station. He would stand there all day, with his back to the door he was keeping open, holding out his hand. Here's the punch line: he carefully picked which of the four doors he held open -- the one with the weakest springs. That way it wasn't too much trouble to hold the door open using very little energy.


But there are good stories from the streets of DC. Such as the street vendor that will let you have the usual product today because they know you've been buying from them regularly and that you'll pay them iin the next couple days. Much different from NYC.

Of course, in NYC, a street vendor set up the way the vendors are set in DC would be robbed of all merchandise in just a few minutes. Mostly by people in suits on their way to well-kept offices.

incorrect

The thread is interesting, but this is unexcuseable

Know what? I still stick to my original contention that you still have a large part of you that wishes you had hosted the ladies. You know you had the right to decline, were justified, but the professor in you will always regret and wonder about the ifs.....

Did you discuss your decision with Stinkums?

The late, great, Ann Landers often said:

"Nobody can take advantage of you without your permission"

I think this one has gone as far as it can.
I'm going to lock it.
If anyone wants it reopened PM me or report this post and someone will get the keys for you.

--AllenG