He had many contributions which included wine production as well.

The problem with you is that you make blanket statements that processing(whatever that means) is all bad all the time. Life isn't that simple.

One could say that ingesting cow milk is unnatural. There are tons of arguments against it. Frankly I am surprised you would drink milk at all.

Raw milk isn't bad and it isn't good. You must have impecable technique and instruments and you will likely be fine. But simply heating milk to 160 degrees is not bad either. Do you cook with milk? Do you cook food at all? If you think pasteurization is wrong, then all cooking is wrong. Have fun with your raw chicken.

the consumption of dairy has stood the test of time of being one of the most important foods for mankind. We would be seriously malnourished without it and probably wouldn't have spread as far as we have. Cheese making was an early form of food preservation and many people would have starved to death over winters without it.

Now after many eons of milk consumption all of a sudden in the last 60-70 years AFTER the intoduction of pasturization some people have become lactose intolerent. Does the mainstream blame pasturization for this?

Absolutely not! It must be that milk is just bad for human consumption despite thousands of years of human consumption and the new proccessing techniques that came just before the spread of lactose intolerence are blameless. Right

Regards, Anthony

Do you just make this crap up?

Do some research on a site the isnt weston price. You'll see that lactose intolerance is not some 'new' disease that has suddenly occured after pasturization was introduced. In fact its the norm.

A reference please Jarery, Yes Dairy may be difficult for some to digest, just as wheat and gluten is difficult to digest and infact gluten intolerence is something that goes back a long time. Traditional preperation techniques with fermentation being the most important of them were/are important to assist digestion.

As ugly as this sounds natural selection may have played a role here. In wheat dominant societies such as the middle east children who are gluten intolerent die in their childhood years. Gluten intolerence is still reasonable common in European societies where other staples exist. In dairy dominant cultures lactose intolerence would be rare however I don't think that lactose intolerence has the same deadly consequenses as gluten intolerence does.

Regards, Anthony

Lactose intolerance is the norm across East Asia.

Very true. Historically, it isn't common at all amongst mostly Northern European-descended populations that have that funny genetic trait that allows their bodies to produce large amounts of lactase after childhood. I think you pretty much figured out the ethnic backgrounds of most of the people participating in this particular thread by the assumption that lactose tolerance is some sort of "norm".

I am from a mostly Northern European background. My brother and I get it from our mom, who is completely Northern European. I'm not severely lactose intolerant, and my symptoms are nearly nonexistant when consuming unpasteurized dairy products. I suspect I still produce a little lactase and the beneficial flora in raw dairy products aid the lactose breakdown process somehow. I wonder if raw dairy products would make any difference to someone more intolerant. Somehow, I doubt it.

Its called history and facts.
Look it up

I'm lactose intolerant. I was breastfed as a baby, then western man told us that milk was the best darn thing next to breast milk. Of course "westerners" knew what was best for Asians right? Or so my mother thought. I was forced to drink the recommended four cups a day. I remember having terrible stomach cramps until I was around 12 and decided that I wasn't gonna drink cow milk anymore. Have been on soy milk ever since. It's an Asian thing.

Pasteurized milk is to blame for childhood autism though, right?

Nah, childhood autism comes from the mercury preservative in vaccines.

I accept that south eastern Asians maybe by and large lactose intolerent but then the northern asians such as the Mongolians are a culture that thrives on dairy don't they.

I have for a number of years removed dairy and wheat/gluten from my diet and was much healthier without them. I was however very ill with very poor bowel function and both dairy and wheat are hard to digest so only having easy to digest foods assisted greatly. As I've slowly healed I can digest dairy and wheat much better than I used to be able to so I am very slowly re introducing them. I still avoid over proccessed dairy and I don't drink regular store milk but I do have access to raw jersey milk which is much easier to digest as far as I'm concerned. I realy crave dairy fat and it feels right to me however I am still struggling to get my magnesium/calcium levels/balance sorted out so dairy is a rare indulgence for me at the moment. The point of the story I guess is that I can vouch for raw dairy being easier to digest than pasturized/proccessed dairy.

Regards, Anthony

You may want to also check out www.notmilk.com.

Andy
www.myvemma.com/unbent

Dont tell that to the swedes and french, both of which have longer life spans and have no obesity epidemic. They accomplish this on whole milk cheeses (much of which is raw) and considerably quantities of dairy. This is not to mention the african tribes that get much of the caloric intake from raw millk. We will save that for another day, after you have done your research and can talk about the history/research that has been done on the topic.

But whats in a real world example as stated above? Just as long as the billboards/government is saying "DRINK MILK" (funded by the pasturized diary industry) thats good enough right...

By the way, I had some raw milk that had been left in a cool cupboard for 4 months, tasted like really strong/sour yoghurt.

Just because a disease was not understood or characterized doesn't mean it didn't exist. They have actually found that adults gradually develop lactose intolerence by their lack of dairy consumption. All you need to do to avoid the gastric distress is to eat yogurt with Lactobacillus acidophilus daily.

Occurs naturally in raw milk....funny how man trys to imitate nature by adding lacto acidophilus to pasturized milk.
I agree with you though, lot of benefits from active cultures. If your going to eat pasturized dairy, high quality yoghurt is the best way. The greek yoghurt is great stuff, good substitute for sourcream as well-

Do you know what else can occur naturally in raw milk?

Salmonella
Rabies
E. coli
Listeria
Various Streptococcus and Staphylococcus bac-t
numerous other pathogens

Well I agree with you that E. coli occurs naturaly in raw milk. Its a probiotic that gives cheeses there flavor and benificial E. Coli protect us from harmful E. coli.

So, what we need are the facts and not the scare tactics. Do you have a reference?

Oh and bacteria ARE NOT pathogens. Its not that simple.

Regards, Anthony

Thats a bit misleading. Raw milk has natural occuring enzymes that deal with alot of what you mentioned above, naturally. I leave my milk sit on the countertop for 3 days before drinking it, which was common practice in days gone by. Havent been sick in 10 years...go figure.
Of course in rare circumstances, the way I unsderstand it, if the 'bad' bacteria overwhelms the good stuff, then a person could get sick. We are talking SEVERLY contaminated. Just like regular milk can make you sick, if its not properly cared for.

What is your take on steak joints that serve rare steaks or sushi places with all the sashimi?
Are they out to get us! They have the possibility of all the same contamination as you stated above-

Isn't it a miracle that mankind managed to survive and flourish prior to all of the 'modern conviences'?

Yeah, but life expectancy was much shorter and death rate much higher.

Most of the people that are 'old' (what your basing your point on) grew up with the raw milks, butters and high cholesterol foods in the early 1900's. Maybe in 50-70 years you will have an argument, because that will show what type of impact all the synthetic foods have of today. From the looks of it though (the obesity epidemic) our life spans will be going back down.
Modern medicine that was started in the early 1900's by William Welch has alot to do with lifespans. Prior to him the human body and viruses were not clearly understood. Prior to these medical breakthroughs, doctors were sometimes more dangerous than the disease itself. Morphine overdose was quite common.
So again, all the 80/90 year olds have Mr. Welch to thank for part of their lifespan, the other part has to do with the whole foods they grew up eating...all whole foods with no synthetic agents.

I am not an advocate of current medical practices, I dont get flu shots, I dont take medicine and I dont get sick. I believe alot of medicine has harmed us more than it has helped. Naturopaths are the way to go, something the chinese have known for a long time-