bikebike3

I have a $100 huffy mountain bike... Actually works good but I will upgrade.
I got a pin hole flat and patched it and it didn't leak for about 250 miles of riding. Now I want to ride again and the tire is flat. I used a bucket water and found the patch I did is leaking. So I re-did the patch. I sanded the old glue off (as good as I could without destroying the rubber) and re-did the patch but it slow leaks already.


Does it matter that I'm using very cheap glue and patches or are patches just known to leak eventually (250 miles if pretty good I guess)?

I use these ebay $1 kits,
(I can't post links yet but basically these are the black and orange patches and mini tubes of glue kit for $1)


the glue, the patches and the metal cheese grater sand paper thing. I use fresh glue usually (I have like ten mini tubes for 45 cents each).

One thing I noticed is it seems like I should be installing the patch on a semi-inflated tube instead of how everyone says the tube should be flat (to press patch in hard) but what I'm seeing happens is once I install the patch on a flat tube and let it sit for about 20 mins to harden, when I inflate it, the patch doesn't stretch with the tube and then the sides of the patches peel up.

I dunno if it's because I'm trying to put glue over old glue and re-patch a patch or if it's because I used too much glue or both reasons.
I do probably put a bit too much glue and I also put it on the orange side of the patch which I don't think is correct, but I let it dry before contacting the two together and I put a 5lb weight on the patch and left it for 15 mins before inflating but it's slow leaking now.



I will look into 'best bike tube patches' and maybe I should really upgrade to a better brand than these $1 ebay kits but other than that, is it also probably leaking because I tried to patch over an old patch??
thanks

EDIT: the tube slow leaked overnight , I didn't put it in rim, so no chance of debris in rim caused tire to go flat again. I will make sure inner tire is clean. I have spare tubes but I'd rather patch until a new tube is warranted.

edit: it seems (based on threads and based on what 'best patch kits' look like that the cheap ebay ones are just as good if not the same thing rebranded as Lezyne etc. And it's good I'm using fresh glue always since I have many small new tubes.

So maybe it's because I put too much glue, and I put glue on the patch also, and I might not be waiting long enough before contacting them together. but I'm afraid to wait too long and then have a bunch of dried glue over the hole and need to sand that down and hope that'll give as good a bond after sanding.

2_i 

Most common mistake is not adhering to the specified time, usually waiting at least 5 min for the glue to dry and less than 10 min. For cleaning lighter fluid is good or paint thinner. Too much glue can hurt but in practice it needs to be way too much to hurt. Not spreading glue widely enough can hurt. Another mistake is in rushing and crumpling the patch. To be honest, good patch kit is better than cheap, but cheap should work well enough for most situations. Certainly the outcomes you are getting sound like operator errors. I buy Rema patches, kits and/or glue, because overall the contribution of materials is marginal compared to the time and work expended putting the patch and dealing with one that does not hold. There are no savings to speak of buying cheap stuff but, repeating, on a case by case basis the cheap should work.

AnkleWork

That seems like poor preparation of the area to be patched or poor technique.

Did you ever find and remove the cause of the original puncture? How is the patch leaking -- from a new puncture or from around the edges or some other way?

Find and follow a good patching procedure from a reliable source. Properly installed patches are permanent.

Bigbus

Can we assume that since you're not sure which side of the patch to put down, you are removing the clear cellophane-like material from the patch before applying it to the dried glue? I use the same elcheapo kits from eBay and never had a problem with the same hole leaking twice. And don't put any glue on the patch, just the tire? I used Shoe Goo once when my tube of patch glue had dried out and had similar success.
Good luck

bikebike3

I'll keep that in mind (wait at least 5 mins but no more than 10), last night it was like 85 degrees and very humid, so the heat makes it dry fast but the humidity slows it down, weather dictates but I think I need to wait a bit more, and NOT also put glue on the patch.




Originally Posted by bikebike3I checked a tutorial on my phone after I did the patch last night but I think I added too much glue (put glue on patch also) and didn't let the glue dry long enough before putting the patch on it. The original patch I don't think I let the glue dry at all but it held up for ~250 miles, I just glued it and held it in place and did that on the spot and rode away in about 15 minutes. I checked the tutorial on my phone AFTER doing the patch last night which ended up failing because I wanted to double check but thought I had it right the first time. I need to just put a note in the patch kit box.

I don't think there's a particle in the tire but I haven't felt around or shaken it out. But the patch re-leaked basically from glue not fusing together anymore. I put under water and it leaked from the original hole under the patch.




I put the right side down. The patches I got have foil on the side that touches the tire and the cellophane is on the outside (and a tutorial said you CAN just leave the cellophane but I removed it anyway - leaving it might reduce the stretchiness of the orange gooey border on the patch which I want stretching as much as possible once the tube is re inflated.

Maybe I also need to wait longer once the patch is applied. The only other time I patched a tube was this hole and it held up for ~250 miles but I didn't wait very long to put the tube back in the tire once it was patched, maybe waited 10 mins. ~250 miles should be more than that, supposedly a properly applied patch is permanent. The rim tape is in good condition.


I peeled off the patch I did last night which leaked anyway and I'll sand it down again and try some paint thinner (nothing too strong like stripper which would probably melt the tire). If it still fails, I'll install new tube.
THANKS!

rm -rf

Unless you can sand off all your old glue down to bare tube rubber, I don't expect it to work. I don't think that solvent will be good, either. I'd throw the tube out without trying to repatch a failure.
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Think of it like contact cement, which is dried before the two pieces are pressed together. You can wait even longer after the glue is dry, but putting the patch on too soon won't work well. I test the edge of the glued area with a finger to see if it's dry enough.

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I save punctured tubes and patch 3 to 5 of them at once. That uses up a whole tube of glue. Old or opened glue tubes are usually dried up when I want to use them.

A batch at a time is a little faster, since all the stuff is out and ready to go. I've been clamping them for maybe 15 to 60 minutes with scrap blocks of wood and a carpenter clamp, but that's probably not required. I haven't had to patch a tube while on a ride in many years, I carry a spare tube, and bring the punctured tube home.

I use patched tubes as if they are new, and never worry about them if they stay inflated for the first hour. My patches are permanent, and reliable.

I never use solvents or other cleaners on the tube. The roughening cleans off the tube. If there's a "mold mark" or other raised line near the hole, I try to sand off that ridge on the tube. I don't like the metal rougheners, like a cheese grater. The small pieces of sandpaper in some kits are easier for me. I brush off any dust with a piece of paper or paper towel.
I use the folded end of the tube of glue as a spreader, sort of like a putty knife. I spread it quite thin, but make sure there's no gaps in coverage.

Never put glue on the patch. That foil gets peeled off, and I never touch the exposed surface of the patch. That exposed surface is made to bond to the dried glue on the tube.

Patches are heavier and don't stretch like a tube does when inflated outside the tire. I never inflate the patched tube outside the tire enough to make it expand. Only a very little air is needed to give the tube some shape to make it easier to install in the tire.

_ForceD_

sch

Glue is probably contact cement and not a 'cold vulcanizing' glue which forms a much stronger mechanical bond between the patch and the tube.
If you can easily remove the patch that would confirm this theory. I use Victor 00599v cement which is described as vulcanizing and removing
patches put on with this glue is difficult and frequently leaves part of the patch still stuck to the tube. $6-7 for 8 oz, can lasts 4-5 yrs. (Walmart
or most auto parts stores).

DannoXYZ 

Yes, if you're able to peel off the old patch, the stuff IS NOT vulcanising fluid with dissolves rubber into rubber. Rubber cement is just glue that can be undone. While decent patch job can be done with rubber-cement, long-term durability is not guaranteed, difference between sticking for 1-month vs. 10-years.

Here's some guidelines I've found to make for very permanent patching job:

1. don't patch on-the-road, install spare-tube and patch at home where you can control environment better.

2. thoroughly sand off mould-release layer from tube. That's stuff that turns white when you sand, keep on sanding until you reach black rubber. And sand beyond patch area by at least 1/4"

3. apply vulcanising fluid directly over hole, about size of pea is good. DON'T use tip of glue-tube to smear glue, it'll be uneven and you'll contaminate tube if it's real vulcanising fluid. And drying-times will be different in different areas because it takes so long to smear with tube.

4. peel off plastic from patch and use lay patch directly over pea-size spot of vulcanising fluid and wiggle patch around to spread and smear. Lift off patch to air out, notice you have perfectly even uniform layer on both patch & tube? Let sit for 1-2 minutes, depending upon at atmospheric conditions. Extended drying time beyond this means you've applied too much fluid.

5. inflate tube to installed size,

6. lay patch over hole & glue area evenly. Might be easier to start on one edge and flap it over hole so you don't have wrinkles and channels for air to escape.

7. press entire patch evenly... with thumb, if you have patch roller, use that gently

8. press tube & patch between 2 blocks of wood and press in vise overnight. Not too tight, but firm. This ensures even pressure all around patch, squeezes out any air-bubbles or pockets, and enhances vulcanising bond between two layers. This patch will not come apart or leak, you'll end up ripping tube trying to remove it.


I've must of done hundreds... if not thousands of patches this way... extremely low failure rate, 1:100 max.

rydabent

Park glueless patches work great on pin holes. And they do last, one of my tubes has one that has a Park patch that has been on going on 3 years now.

bikebike3

Unless you can sand off all your old glue down to bare tube rubber, I don't expect it to work.

It didn't, because of this ^ probably. I did use much less glue this time and left it overnight with a weight on it but it showed a slow bubble leak underwater
I replaced tube instead.

PITA these patches and tubes. Grease on my hands. I'm looking into tubeless or flat-free tires. I ride a mountain bike but might get a hybrid because I mostly ride in the street anyway. I just don't understand why flat-free tires haven't been used for decades, just give me a hard rubber tire and shocks to absorb everything and it should be fine, no? Or maybe tubeless like a car which rarely gets a flat but need a machine to break the glue seal.
Some cheap flat-free tires, some are pricey. I barely looked into it.

I put green slime in the tires too. I read mixed reviews but I don't think it'll hurt and I don't mind the extra weight of a few ounces and I have a giant tub of green slime I use in various yard machines.


Another things which strikes me as asinine is the rims are friction fitted to the frame, that is, the axle/bolt just gets placed into a slot on the frame and only the tightness of the nuts holds the wheel on! Not through-bolted. I assume better bikes are through-bolted. Remember this is a ~$100 Huffy but it's held up good actually. I am afraid the wheel will fall off so I tighten the F out of it with a ratchet and now I put a ratchet and socket in my bag because I used to only keep an adjustable wrench but it slips/strips sometimes when it's as tight as I made it now.


I did read about volcanized glue.. seems amazing, it can patch the SIDE of a car tire. Those 'rubber sticks' for car tires are volcanizing and I've installed ~10 in my life and never had a problem. I wonder if it'll be okay to put small amounts in plastic baggies or something then squeeze the air out and tie it so I can have small packets in my bag to patch while riding. Maybe they sell small tubes of it I will check and get that for sure. EDIT, they sell small tubes for $6 I might get a couple but it'd be smarter to just get a jar for at home and swap the tube while riding!


I save punctured tubes and patch 3 to 5 of them at once. That uses up a whole tube of glue. Old or opened glue tubes are usually dried up when I want to use them

I read an article said you should get 30-50 ! patches from 1 mini tube. They also said put tiny bit of glue on the patch. Seems like not enough glue. Says put thin as possible layer 3 times in a row. That's not a bad idea though come to think of it ... I can just keep a spare tube with me which I already do in case of a serious blow-out, and then I can patch the pin hole one when I get home and use volcanized glue. I won't be able to fully test the patched tube without riding on it but if it holds air after patched and inflated just the tube by itself for a day or so, that should mean it's reliable enough that if anything it might just have a pin hole which I can inflate as needed once I put that tube in the bag as the backup.


I don't like the metal rougheners, like a cheese grater. The small pieces of sandpaper in some kits are easier for me.

I agree, the cheese grater is as if in order to even scuff up the rubber I almost have to rip into it. I just put small pieces of sandpaper in my kit instead.

Never put glue on the patch. That foil gets peeled off, and I never touch the exposed surface of the patch. That exposed surface is made to bond to the dried glue on the tube.

True, the oils on fingers alone let alone the grease from the chain if it's the rear wheel really opposes glue. Another reason to just swap out tubes and fix it at home instead of patching while riding.

peel off plastic from patch and use lay patch directly over pea-size spot of vulcanising fluid and wiggle patch around to spread and smear.

that's smart^.

5. inflate tube to installed size,

so fully inflate it to ~40 psi BEFORE I put the patch on (but after the glue in on) ? Put the patch on it fully inflated and then vice it while fully inflated? sorry confused. OR installed size just means slightly inflated?

ordering vulcanizing stuff now. thanks!

bikebike3

THANKS AGAIN.
Just ordered a 8oz w/ brush Rema Tip Top 203-F Specifically designed for the vulcanization of tube patches, valve patches and rubber-based tube valve repair units.

They have mini Rema vulcanizing tubes on ebay 3 for $6.77 shipped I was going to get to put in bag in case I get two flats and MUST patch on the road but I'll use up the regular cheaper glue (8oz will fill so many .135oz tubes) for now should at the worst just be a slow leak on the way back. Or I can maybe refill empty mini tubes with the 203-F and a syringe.

They make Rema patches but they look like the same orange China ones I got a whole sheet of for like $2 shipped already ordered two days ago. Can always upgrade patches if need be though.

take care.

2_i 

Rema patches and glue have chemical compounds that work together to speed up the vulcanizing process. Just that something looks similar does not mean that it is of the same class. Many people carry 2 small glue tubes in case one dried out. Heptane is a solvent for the glue and keep a container of it that is as important as a can of glue - I add some solvent if the glue is getting dense. For the road I actually carry small glass vials, off Ebay, that I fill myself. Heptane can be obviously also used for any glue residue on a tube.

DannoXYZ 

Not 40psi, without tyre to contain it, tube will only require 1-2 pumps to expand to installed size, 1-2 psi.