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Drive side noise

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Old 01-04-13 | 02:11 PM
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Drive side noise

I recently repacked my bottom bracket and now I'm having some noise on the drive side. When I'm really givin'er I can hear 2 or 3 quick clicks almost like a ratcheting noise when the right pedal is all the way forward in rotation. It doesn't do it on a stand. Only when I'm pedaling. I can't tell if its a problem with grease/bearings or if maybe my chain is hitting the chain wheel or freewheel in a weird way.
Any ideas?
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Old 01-04-13 | 02:35 PM
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Sounds most like the chain touching the plates of the front derailleur, but very difficult to be sure. Maybe the crank is slightly further in/out on the spindle after the rebuild and this has thrown the FD adjustment off a tad.
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Old 01-04-13 | 04:19 PM
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Since you state that you repacked your bearings I infer that you have a conventional cup and cone BB. Many of these have asymmetrical spindle lengths. Are you certain that you re-installed the spindle in the proper orientation? Do you have the correct number of bearing balls installed? Correct torque on the crank bolts?
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Old 01-04-13 | 06:34 PM
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Different problems result in different sounding noises. If it's a pulsed snoring (or sawing) sound zzzz, ................. zzzz .............. once per crank rotation as you describe, it's possibly a wobbly chainring, or play in the spindle or crank allowing the crank to deflect out at the top when you load the pedal.

A more grinding sound could be a bearing issue, though that doesn't tend to pulse in rhythm as clearly. However BB bearing noise does get worse at max power input (horizontal pedal) because the chain tension pulls the crank back maxing the bearing load.

There are other sounds, but that's for starters, and might point you in the right direction.

If you don't find the problem, you might want to repost with a better description or better yet a video (audio) so we might hear the problem outselves.
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Old 01-04-13 | 07:10 PM
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is this a square shaft BB?

stand on the pedals while holding yourself upright with one hand on a pole or door frame or something. put one pedal forward (cranks horizontal), and bounce your weight a bit, then put the other pedal forward and do that again, repeat this a couple times. do you hear your 'crick' when you do this? if yes, you either didn't adjust your BB quite right, or you didn't torque the crank bolts on hard enough. I usually put my side bets on the latter.
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Old 01-04-13 | 08:28 PM
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I should have specified; It is a UO8 now running as a single speed. Cup and cone bottom bracket. No derailleurs. The spindle is definitely in the right way because I was actually unable to remove the drive side crank arm so I just took off the non adjustable cup and did the work while it was still attached.
The BB is definitely not loose because that was the first thing I checked. I guess if could be loose crank arms but given FBinNY's sound explanation chain ring seems more likely. I did also remove that while doing the work so perhaps it was not attached completely.

Thanks.
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Old 01-04-13 | 08:48 PM
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Perhaps the chainring is rubbing on the chainstay... this is likely if you accidentally turned an asymmetrical spindle around when overhauling the BB.
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Old 01-04-13 | 09:13 PM
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with a SS, any chain line error should be really obvious.
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Old 01-06-13 | 02:25 PM
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Well I tightened up the chain wheel and the arms but it's still making noise. Next I'll try tightening up the chain a bit and failing that I'll revisit the bottom bracket.
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Old 01-06-13 | 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Joe
Well I tightened up the chain wheel and the arms but it's still making noise. Next I'll try tightening up the chain a bit and failing that I'll revisit the bottom bracket.
If this is a single speed the chain should NEVER be under under tension. Perhaps this is your problem.

Chainrings, especially steel cottered crank chainrings are always a bit eccentric. That means that the tension will vary as you pedal. The correct adjustment is that whereby the chain still is slightly slack at the tightest position.

Rotate the cranks with a finger pushing the the middle of lower loop up slightly and feel where that the chain is tightest (most straight against finger pressure). At that point the there should be enough slack for the middle of the lower loop to freely move up or down 1/8" or so (min,). Or you can test for chain slack by rocking the crank back and forth a few degrees and you should be able to see the transfer of slack between the lower and upper loops.

Again, since slack will vary, do all measurements where it is least.
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Old 01-06-13 | 03:09 PM
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Reminds me of a time I was biking with a friend and his complaint of a "ticking" noise, coming from the front wheel (possibly a bearing) turned out to be coming from the rear wheel (which I could identify easily - not being on the bike), and further investigation showed it to be a loose spoke on the rear wheel. A couple of minutes with a spoke-key soon cured the problem.

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Old 01-06-13 | 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
If this is a single speed the chain should NEVER be under under tension. Perhaps this is your problem.

Chainrings, especially steel cottered crank chainrings are always a bit eccentric. That means that the tension will vary as you pedal. The correct adjustment is that whereby the chain still is slightly slack at the tightest position.

Rotate the cranks with a finger pushing the the middle of lower loop up slightly and feel where that the chain is tightest (most straight against finger pressure). At that point the there should be enough slack for the middle of the lower loop to freely move up or down 1/8" or so (min,). Or you can test for chain slack by rocking the crank back and forth a few degrees and you should be able to see the transfer of slack between the lower and upper loops.

Again, since slack will vary, do all measurements where it is least.
The chain is not currently tight in any sense. Just looking at it you can see the slack. This is what leads me to believe it could afford to be a bit tighter.

I'm thinking maybe the chain might be dirty and is creaking but I wonder if it would even be possible for a chain to only squeak at the same point of rotation. It seems less likely of the wheels being the problem. They're only a few months old and the previous wheels were s rough that I think I learned every possible way a wheel could make noise. Ha.

I've actually considered that perhaps the pedal is the culprit. Part of me feels like this happened once before but I can't recall what I would have done to fix it.
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Old 01-06-13 | 05:03 PM
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Go back to you original description of the problem as synchronous to crank movement.

This points to a crank/chainring/BB/pedal cause, or somthing power or chain tension related. Since it's SS start by verifying good chainline, and that the chain isn't rubbing down the side of the chainring. Poor chainline, combined with a dry chain and/or nicked chainring teeth will cause the type of sound you describe.

Also, modern external and cartridge BBs are prone to noise under max pedal load. It could also be the pedal threads, remove the pedals clean the threads and mating faces and replace, using a pedal washer sometimes solves pedal thread click

Lastly it could be something related to the chain load on the rear hub. Things that sound like BB noise are a broken axle, loose locknut, and flex of the axle at the dropout.
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Old 01-07-13 | 04:17 PM
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Made time for the bike today. Tightened and lubed the chain, removed the pedal and greased the threads, and, more importantly, I took the pedal apart and found that the bearings were bone dry. I threw in some grease and now it is silent. I did also notice that I can probably fit two more bearings in there. I've just got to find the spares.

Thanks to everyone for your help.
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Old 01-07-13 | 04:30 PM
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there's supposed to be a gap of at least 1 bearing on each race. don't pack too many in.
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Old 01-07-13 | 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pierce
there's supposed to be a gap of at least 1 bearing on each race. don't pack too many in.
+1, Pedal makers actually know what they're doing.

Don't add a ball because the consequences of one too many are far worse than one too few. Also it's bad practice to add a ball, since balls are produced in lots, and the lot to lot tolerance is much looser than the tolerance within the batch. It's analogous to paint. All the paint within a single lot will match exactly, but if you but the same exact paint from another lot it won' match.
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Old 01-07-13 | 06:47 PM
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Good to know. But I did take them apart a few months ago and so I think I might have missed one in the process of reassembly. I say this because it is a pretty big space and even through the noise is gone I know feel a very slight knock in the pedal. It seems like the bearings are colliding inside and I feel that momentum shift.
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Old 01-07-13 | 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Joe
Good to know. But I did take them apart a few months ago and so I think I might have missed one in the process of reassembly. I say this because it is a pretty big space and even through the noise is gone I know feel a very slight knock in the pedal. It seems like the bearings are colliding inside and I feel that momentum shift.
If the cone is correctly adjusted to a slight preload, the balls are each in constant contact with the axle and outer race. All the load is 100% radial through the balls, and there's no force pushing them apart on the bottom and against each other elsewhere. In use the gap will spread itself among the complement of balls, and there'll be no ball to ball contact (the grease ensurs that).

You'll note that I said "if the cone is adjusted correctly". That's because if the bearing is loose the balls ride on a smaller diameter part of the cone. Now the axle can shift off center eliminating the concentricity needed for the system to work as designed. The axle presses down between the balls forcing forcing them out to either side so they rub against each other. "Axle drop also sets up a vibration as each ball passing 6 O'clock has to lift the axle slightly to get by.
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