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Toe strap advice

Old 01-12-15, 01:08 PM
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Toe strap advice

I have a pair of Cinelli toe straps that I got quite awhile ago. I had always had problems tightening/loosening them, and after examining them discovered that the rollers in the buckle were crimped in so they do not turn, at least not easily.

Any suggestions as to how to remedy this? They are nice straps, and I would love to use them. I'll post pics in a bit.
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Old 01-12-15, 01:43 PM
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I never encountered straps with crimped/immobilized rollers and I can't see why Cinelli might have done so on your straps. Can you uncrimp them in some way to get them rolling again? it will be good to do so as the straps can get damaged eventually if you pull it the non moving roller, especially if it is knurled.
Can you provide a pic of the straps so we can see exactly how it might have been crimped??
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Old 01-12-15, 03:35 PM
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If they are constructed like Bindas, it is usually just a rod stuck through the roller, then the frame of the buckle, then pinched flat on each end.
Not a great design, and I'll bet the pinched rod, or axle, is hanging up on the buckle frame where it is swaged down. If so…..Sitting here trying to envision how to fix that, I'm scratching my head.
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Old 01-12-15, 05:22 PM
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oil.

i sometimes use twine on the length of extra strap to keep it in place if the strap tends to loosen when riding or upon shoe removal. i wrap the twine just like i'm finishing bar wrap, except i don't coat it with anything like lacquer to harden it. twine stas in place nicely.
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Old 01-12-15, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rootboy View Post
If they are constructed like Bindas, it is usually just a rod stuck through the roller, then the frame of the buckle, then pinched flat on each end.
Not a great design, and I'll bet the pinched rod, or axle, is hanging up on the buckle frame where it is swaged down. If so…..Sitting here trying to envision how to fix that, I'm scratching my head.
an attempt to widen the buckle frame with a flat blade screwdriver might do it, one has t be careful if it is a plastic roller and you wedge the blade between the end of the roller and a frame side. Never had this issue myself, but earlier ones with the brass roller would get corrosion on the roller pin.
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Old 01-12-15, 09:31 PM
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Thanks.
I've tried lubing them, tried to spread the frame, etc. No go. These aren't the little crimped ends, but mushroom heads on I guess a rivet or rod of sorts? Metal rollers. I'd forgotten I had put these on my son's bike since he just leaves them loose anyway.

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Old 01-12-15, 10:10 PM
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I am a goldsmith, so i would use my Jewelers saw to carefully saw one end of the roller down. The blade would need to rest slightly against the buckle frame, slightly angled towards the roller. The sawing motion acts like filing the end of the roller. A demonstration would be so much more effective than my clumsy description. Harbor Freight has reasonably usable jewelers saw frames and blades available. The other option would be to remove the rivit, trim one end of the roller and make a new rivit from a common nail or some other wire of suitable diameter. I could perform the modification faster than explain it.
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Old 01-12-15, 10:31 PM
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Hmmmm, on the face of it, I can't believe it would make much difference whether the roller turned or not.
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Old 01-12-15, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Pars View Post
Thanks.
I've tried lubing them, tried to spread the frame, etc. No go. These aren't the little crimped ends, but mushroom heads on I guess a rivet or rod of sorts? Metal rollers. I'd forgotten I had put these on my son's bike since he just leaves them loose anyway.

I'm guessing the inside of the roller has rusted so now it won't turn. Try soaking it in vinegar over night and see of you can't break it free.
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Old 01-12-15, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by elcraft View Post
I am a goldsmith, so i would use my Jewelers saw to carefully saw one end of the roller down. The blade would need to rest slightly against the buckle frame, slightly angled towards the roller. The sawing motion acts like filing the end of the roller. A demonstration would be so much more effective than my clumsy description. Harbor Freight has reasonably usable jewelers saw frames and blades available. The other option would be to remove the rivit, trim one end of the roller and make a new rivit from a common nail or some other wire of suitable diameter. I could perform the modification faster than explain it.
That aligns with my thought, just different tool. Since I don't have a dremel worth a crap, I might give this a shot.

Originally Posted by Ed. View Post
Hmmmm, on the face of it, I can't believe it would make much difference whether the roller turned or not.
It does. The buckle clamping action is tight. Pulling the strap to either tighten it or loosen it just doesn't work.

Originally Posted by onespeedbiker View Post
I'm guessing the inside of the roller has rusted so now it won't turn. Try soaking it in vinegar over night and see of you can't break it free.
They've never been left outside. Not sure how they could have rusted. Might try this anyhow though.

Thanks for the ideas!
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Old 01-13-15, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Pars View Post


They've never been left outside. Not sure how they could have rusted. Might try this anyhow though.
I understand Aurora has a very humid climate.
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Old 01-13-15, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Pars View Post
Thanks.

That's interesting. So, mushroomed, or peened, heads on both sides? I've wondered before just how they do that and keep the rod from peening evenly. Just a guess but looks as though the roller is just too tight in the assembly. Only thing I can think of is remove the rod, grind down the roller end and replace the rod. But, with what? Looks like the roller is chrome plated. Trying to remove some off the end of it while in the frame would be tricky. But might work.
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Old 01-13-15, 08:42 AM
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you can always removed the straps and use the toe clips w/o them
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Old 01-13-15, 11:11 AM
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That sort of defeats the purpose of the system, in my view. I believe this problem can be fixed. But it might require some surgery.
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Old 01-13-15, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by elcraft View Post
I am a goldsmith, so i would use my Jewelers saw to carefully saw one end of the roller down. The blade would need to rest slightly against the buckle frame, slightly angled towards the roller. The sawing motion acts like filing the end of the roller. A demonstration would be so much more effective than my clumsy description. Harbor Freight has reasonably usable jewelers saw frames and blades available. The other option would be to remove the rivit, trim one end of the roller and make a new rivit from a common nail or some other wire of suitable diameter. I could perform the modification faster than explain it.
Probably go through a few blades though, chrome is hard.

I would be temped just to take a pair of diagonal cutting pliers and see if I could stretch the roller pin to free up the roller.

Last edited by repechage; 01-13-15 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 01-13-15, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Probably go through a few blades though, chrome is hard.
The chrome plating is no more than .01 mils thick and probably much less. You would go through it on the first stroke
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Old 01-13-15, 07:47 PM
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It's possible that when they peened the ends of the roller axle it slightly bent the axle inside, which might be causing it to bind up.
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Old 01-13-15, 09:05 PM
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Well, they did both of them the same, because they are both this way.

Odd that I used these for probably a couple of years and though I noticed they didn't tighten/loosen like they should have, I just figured the buckles were tighter than I was used to. Even though I used to have Bindas.

Once I pulled them out of the Campy NR pedals (not easy), and examined them, I discovered the rollers wouldn't turn without assistance from some pliers.

If I were to grind one of the heads off of the roller axle, any suggested replacement? Finishing nail with the ends flattened?
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Old 01-14-15, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Pars View Post
Well, they did both of them the same, because they are both this way.

Odd that I used these for probably a couple of years and though I noticed they didn't tighten/loosen like they should have, I just figured the buckles were tighter than I was used to. Even though I used to have Bindas.

Once I pulled them out of the Campy NR pedals (not easy), and examined them, I discovered the rollers wouldn't turn without assistance from some pliers.

If I were to grind one of the heads off of the roller axle, any suggested replacement? Finishing nail with the ends flattened?
Once you trimmed the finishing nail to extend just a little past the frame's end, you could create a "dimple" in the trimmed end that could be flared out using a modified nail set punch. This is essentially how the original rivit was formed. A non-ferrous nail, like brass, would work even more easily, after it was softened by a torch. Softening is technically called annealing, heat until dull red in a dimly lit area (bright lights won't allow for seeing the color well). The dimple should be a conical hole; a rounded punch tip will "roll" the rim of this hole outward and down onto the frame. Technically, this known as "upsetting". Again, the description is clumsier than if I could just demonstrate the process.
As for breaking a few blades on a Saw frame, practice makes perfect! IME, the rollers are not that hardened. The knurled pattern slightly hardens the surface, but the ends of the rollers are soft enough. As I am experienced, I can use 3 x0 saw blades. I would recommend 2 x 0 or 0 for those just starting out. these sizes may not be available at Harbor Freight, but possibly at a craft store like Michaels.
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Old 01-14-15, 05:53 AM
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I often get confused by toe straps in person, so this discussion is just another migraine.
Good luck, though, Pars, and see you at the Dairyland Dare, if possible.
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Old 01-14-15, 07:02 AM
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It sounds to me like you ought to send these to Elcraft, Pars. Sounds like he has the experience and know-how to do the fix.
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Old 01-14-15, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by elcraft View Post
I am a goldsmith, so i would use my Jewelers saw to carefully saw one end of the roller down. The blade would need to rest slightly against the buckle frame, slightly angled towards the roller. The sawing motion acts like filing the end of the roller. A demonstration would be so much more effective than my clumsy description. Harbor Freight has reasonably usable jewelers saw frames and blades available. The other option would be to remove the rivit, trim one end of the roller and make a new rivit from a common nail or some other wire of suitable diameter. I could perform the modification faster than explain it.
I'm not finding these on their site. I do have something similar to a jewelers saw, though I would need blades for it. I inherited it from my father in law; think he used it for violin making. I broke the blades cutting printed circuit boards IIRC
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Old 01-14-15, 09:43 AM
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How similar, Pars? You know, a jeweler's saw uses those VERY thin, fine toothed blades, like so;
https://www.google.com/search?q=Jewe...w=1125&bih=844

If this is what you have, I can send you a coupla blades, no charge. But, if you intend to replace the roller axle, I guess sawing the roller would be moot. I suppose one could start by sawing .5 mm off the end of the roller, hoping it is just pinched between the frame, and see if that frees things up. But, of course, if you intend to replace the axle, you could just sand down the end of the roller while it is out of the frame.

I tend to think, though I have no evidence to support this supposition, that the problem is inside, between the axle and the roller. Maybe not.
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Old 01-14-15, 10:12 AM
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You could be right regarding where the interference is. Maybe removing the axle is the place to start? And I'll have to look at and measure the saw, but the blades did seem like the jewelers saw blades I recall from Jr. High art class where we did some (bad) jewelry making. Did get to silver solder, etc., but I'm surprised I remembered that much, let alone how to do it
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Old 01-14-15, 10:49 AM
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I have a jeweler's saw. a few in fact. And blades. And lots of tools, etc. But I'm trying to figure out just how "easy" it would be to try saw a sliver off of the end of the roller with it in place. None too easy, in my book. But I'm sure Elcraft could probably pull it off. I like his suggestion of using a brass rod for the axle. A nail will just rust. Brass can corrode, of course but may be more user friendly. Finding the right diameter could be an issue but the bore through the roller could be adjusted with it out of the frame. Right now I'm trying to envision how I would hold the thing to peen, or "upset" the ends of the rod. Do-able, I think.

BTW, Pars, I remember those Junior High School classes! And the weird crap we made.
Do they still let kids do that kind of stuff? Hope so.
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