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Fitting in Weights to Zone 2 + HIIT

Old 04-24-24, 08:22 PM
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Fitting in Weights to Zone 2 + HIIT

Riddle me this - Since I am pushing 70 - am starting to notice a decline in endurance and increased fatigue, which I would like to counter. Currently doing 4 days of Zone, 2 rest days and one HIIT. Would like to incorporate weight/strength/leg work. So how do I fit this in to my schedule? Do I need to drop one Z2 day, or do it on a rest day, which seems anti-rest?

How do you do it?
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Old 04-24-24, 10:04 PM
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I'm 78 and yes, that's a problem. I think it's more a question of long-term health and injury prevention that it is a question of performance on the bike. My wife and I have been strength training Tuesday and Thursday for decades. I used to ride before gym, but that doesn't work anymore. One of the things I did in response is to start doing 1 set of 30-40 reps to exhaustion. So that's rather anaerobic and for a longer period that short sets. Works and helps make up for the lack of bike time. We're in the gym for 45'-60'. You can try an hour of cycling immediately before the gym, see if you can tolerate that. I used to be able to do intervals and still lift heavy.
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Old 04-25-24, 02:34 AM
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I stopped doing weight training on rest days after realizing I was not giving my body or muscles enough recovery time.

I weight train on ride days, either after hard rides or before zone 2 rides.

if you don’t have energy for that, I recommend dropping zone 2 rides to weight train from a longevity perspective
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Old 04-25-24, 03:19 AM
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I think you have to compromise your riding time to fit strength training into your schedule. Rest days are not rest days if you do strength training. But it might work for you at first if your strength training sessions are very light.

I try to do 2x light strength training sessions per week - geared toward cycling. But I’m starting to think more about making these sessions harder and more generalised. You have to decide whether biking is your main performance goal or aim for more all-round fitness.

While cycling is great for fitness, it is also quite limited. Adding in strength training and ideally a few other sports would improve all-round fitness, but possibly at the expense of cycling performance. It’s likely to be a good trade-off for most people.
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Old 04-25-24, 04:32 AM
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I dislike doing strength training, to put it mildly. Once or twice a week focusing on upper body and core. I do squats and Bulgarians, with weights if my legs aren't sore and just body weight if they are. Today is strength training day so I'll read BF and drink coffee for quite a while longer. Also, the garage needs cleaning.
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Old 04-25-24, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by BTinNYC
I dislike doing strength training, to put it mildly.
Same here. I love most sports, but for some reason I find strength training mind-numbingly tedious. My wife loves it though!
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Old 04-25-24, 06:17 AM
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First the caveat that I’ve switched to mostly running and my real priorities are overall health, fitness, and maintaining strength.

I find three runs a week plenty and that ends up being at least one “hard” workout. I try to do two sessions per week of strength training. Usually it functions as zone 2 cross training as well by swapping through exercises to keep my HR in roughly that zone. My strength training has a focus on support for running.

So yeah, I’ve basically swapped some zone 2 cycling and/or running for strength training. Realistically I’ve swapped some cycling because it’s hard for me to recover adequately from more than three runs per week. Cycling is much easier to do on consecutive days. Cycling is also great to do the day after a run because it works the body differently and gives my feet a rest.

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Old 04-25-24, 08:02 AM
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As others have pointed out, weights aren't "rest," and endurance training interferes with strength gains. So, unless there's a lot of slack in your training schedule, you're going to have to give something up. I won't tell you what I do, because it's dumb and driven by neurotic demons.
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Old 04-25-24, 09:59 AM
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[QUOTE=MoAlpha;23223377]As others have pointed out, weights aren't "rest," and endurance training interferes with strength gains. So, unless there's a lot of slack in your training schedule, you're going to have to give something up. I won't tell you what I do, because it's dumb and driven by neurotic demons.[/QUOTE]

I find your last sentence very interesting, since there are couple of different interpretations. But your point about giving something up is well taken and reinforced by the other comments.
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Old 04-25-24, 01:20 PM
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I just recently started doing weight training - a little more than 2 months ago.

This isn't answering your question, directly, but there is an indirect connection.

when I decided to start weight training (I'm 62, btw), I recognized two things (a) I don't know what I'm doing in the weight room and (b) I can injure myself if I do things wrong or try to do too much. So I am, for the time being, paying a trainer.

A couple of months in, and I am NOT lifting heavy weights. Mostly, my work is to strengthen my core and stretches, with relatively easy low-weight leg work, so that I can learn good form and later do heavy leg work without hurting myself.

I expect that when I do start lifting heavy, it will impact my riding and recovery times, but the core strengthening and relatively easy leg work I am doing now does not affect or limit my ability to ride.
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Old 04-25-24, 11:02 PM
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It may be boring, so ignore this post: My workout 2X a week:

2 sets each:
30 push ups
2 minutes of Superman pose
2 mins of planks
using a PT ball, 30 leg lifts each side
40 squats
20 Bulgarian lunges
20 standard lunges
20 kettle bell swings from crouched to upright
30 curls
20 shoulder to the sky lifts
will start doing dead lifts back willing

Maybe I don’t need to head to the gym.
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Old 04-26-24, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
It may be boring, so ignore this post: My workout 2X a week:

2 sets each:
30 push ups
2 minutes of Superman pose
2 mins of planks
using a PT ball, 30 leg lifts each side
40 squats
20 Bulgarian lunges
20 standard lunges
20 kettle bell swings from crouched to upright
30 curls
20 shoulder to the sky lifts
will start doing dead lifts back willing

Maybe I don’t need to head to the gym.
Is this a new strength routine that you are proposing to add into the mix or an existing routine that you already do alongside your biking?

This is broadly similar to what I do and in my case is light enough to fit around most other activities or on rest days. I consider it a “maintenance” strength routine rather than a dedicated strength building routine involving heavy weights.
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Old 04-26-24, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by PeteHski
Is this a new strength routine that you are proposing to add into the mix or an existing routine that you already do alongside your biking?

This is broadly similar to what I do and in my case is light enough to fit around most other activities or on rest days. I consider it a “maintenance” strength routine rather than a dedicated strength building routine involving heavy weights.
Existing. You are no doubt right that it is not contributing to strength, just maintaining.
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Old 04-26-24, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
Existing. You are no doubt right that it is not contributing to strength, just maintaining.
It is certainly a good start to build from. I remember when I did regular gym lifting the muscle fatigue was on another level compared to this kind of base strength work. So there has to be some compromise when mixing it with endurance cycling.
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Old 04-27-24, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha
As others have pointed out, weights aren't "rest," and endurance training interferes with strength gains. So, unless there's a lot of slack in your training schedule, you're going to have to give something up. I won't tell you what I do, because it's dumb and driven by neurotic demons.
Me too. And if I discussed my demons, someone might be inclined to throw a net over me.
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Old 04-27-24, 09:46 AM
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I would recommend adding isometrics to your strength training plan. Not to replace traditional strength training, but to enhance it. Isometrics are great for developing stronger connective tissue and there's not the same fatigue associated with traditional weight training. Of course it's boring, but I fight that boredom by setting goals for myself, such as how long can I stay in a "horse stance" or in a pushup position at various positions.

The other nice thing about isometrics is that you don't have to go to the gym, you can do them while watching TV, such as during the commercials.


Example of Horse stance and some of the benefits


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Old 04-27-24, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Hermes
Me too. And if I discussed my demons, someone might be inclined to throw a net over me.
LAJ posted the following joke, which I love, because it combines two of my passionate interests, cycling and behavioral economics: A bike racer was asked, “would you accept the following deal: You get $10 and your worst enemy gets $1,000,000? The bike racer said, “sure, I could use a million bucks!”
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Old 04-27-24, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
I just recently started doing weight training - a little more than 2 months ago.

This isn't answering your question, directly, but there is an indirect connection.

when I decided to start weight training (I'm 62, btw), I recognized two things (a) I don't know what I'm doing in the weight room and (b) I can injure myself if I do things wrong or try to do too much. So I am, for the time being, paying a trainer.

A couple of months in, and I am NOT lifting heavy weights. Mostly, my work is to strengthen my core and stretches, with relatively easy low-weight leg work, so that I can learn good form and later do heavy leg work without hurting myself.

I expect that when I do start lifting heavy, it will impact my riding and recovery times, but the core strengthening and relatively easy leg work I am doing now does not affect or limit my ability to ride.
IME that's a good thing to do. Early on, I focus on full range of motion for every exercise. A good prep for lifting heavier, if that's your intention, is simply to increase reps to 30. Then do 2 sets of 30. Then 3. Between sets, let your HR come down some, but not down to resting. Stay just in the aerobic range, though you might go anaerobic during the set. Once you can do 3 sets, increase the weight slightly on the 2nd and 3rd sets, so you'll get a warmup set, then a working set, then a hard set. If you can't do 30, it's too much weight, though on the last set I'd put enough on that I could so say 25 but not 30.. You'll notice a big difference on the bike, at least I did.
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Old 04-27-24, 03:22 PM
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I'll give it to the folks preoccupied with a fitness regime =
I'm busy trying some (new and old) fun things, before i die.
I just exercise enough to feel better. The bikes make me feel better; sometimes when I don't ride them that far or that fast.

Time to haul out the kayaks, check the hiking & backpacking gear, and plan a summer trip with the grandkids.
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Old 04-28-24, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rsbob
Riddle me this - Since I am pushing 70 - am starting to notice a decline in endurance and increased fatigue ...
North of the mid-50s, I'd strongly suggest doing a regular routine of muscle strengthening. If concerned about "gym" "heavy weights" combinations, consider yoga. It'll add quite a bit of strength, but (at least in my own experience) it won't take quite as much out of you. As you find time beyond that, either via somewhat reducing time on the bike or opening up one of your other days, you can consider incorporating some whole-body, compound-exercise movements to target specific areas that aren't quite getting enough from the existing+yoga. (A handful of floor exercises, the old "calisthenics" type stuff, some dumbbell or kettlebell work.)

Some yoga positions and exercises to consider. Definitely consider joining a yoga instructor to get started, if you're new to it. But once you've got the basic motions down and have identified a dozen or more exercises you can do, then it's simple enough to accomplish on your own whenever you've got 15-30mins to spare. It's something that can hold you in good stead long after many other exercises take too big a bite.

https://www.sensational-yoga-poses.com/index.html

A source providing lots of ideas about specific "floor" exercises and shorter routines. Again, something easily accomplished at home, anywhere. You can pick and choose any of the specific exercises that better target areas you're wanting to strengthen, and you can do in a "circuit" approach in combination to get a reasonable cardio (even HIIT) benefit.

https://www.darebee.com/filter#sort=...ir=desc&page=1
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Old 04-30-24, 09:16 PM
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I got a Craigslist Olympic barbell and a few little weights about 6 weeks ago and after watching a few videos, started doing dead lifts 3 days a week. Adding weight to my three sets of ten very slowly and hopefully avoiding injury. Then I picked up some vintage metric plates to use on the Olympic bar in the garage and got a shorter lighter bar for my wife to use in the house with the rubber plates. Yesterday, I got a tall Craigslist squat rack with a pull-up bar and will add squats, bench press, and pull ups. I haven’t lifted since i wanted to be an offensive guard like Jerry Kramer. Now I’m hopping to have fun with this weightlifting stuff, increase my power to the pedals, and prevent serious injury when I crash.
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Old 05-04-24, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Wildwood
I'll give it to the folks preoccupied with a fitness regime =
I'm busy trying some (new and old) fun things, before i die.
I just exercise enough to feel better. The bikes make me feel better; sometimes when I don't ride them that far or that fast.

Time to haul out the kayaks, check the hiking & backpacking gear, and plan a summer trip with the grandkids.
Only 3 posts later and I'm eating crow.

All the threads about becoming superman, and well-muscled cyclist got me thinking about the free Medicare gym benefit (new to Medicare personally.) The closest gym, only 4 miles from home, is in the program. Signing up next week - will update with my weight, HIIT and Zoned Out programs. And must not forget the acre of yard/garden maintenance that is in full Spring Swing.


A forest bordered yard/garden feels nice to me. But dang the vine-ey weeds are a multi-week bending & pulling & digging exercise session.


edit: Last gym or fitness club membership pre-dates my 40years as a cyclist. It was a club membership to play tennis mostly, but the steam room, jacuzzi, cold shower rotation was excellent.
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Old 05-06-24, 11:58 AM
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At some point the focus should become overall health/injury prevention/range of motion. Whatever you can do to accomplish that. Some form of stretching routine such as yoga should be the cornerstone of that. It will enable you to do the other things with less chance of injury. For the OP, adding 5-10lbs of muscle might hurt the bike climbing performance, but add a few more years to your life/active life. You're at that point where moving a piece of furniture could cause a long, nagging injury.
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Old 05-06-24, 12:04 PM
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All the threads about becoming superman, and well-muscled cyclist got me thinking about the free Medicare gym benefit (new to Medicare personally.) The closest gym, only 4 miles from home, is in the program.
Very important to take advantage of this if a person qualifies. All that stuff that you'll have access to that you won't have to clean or maintain. Fitness quipment, pool, hot tub, sauna, showers, etc, etc. It can simplify your life.

As an example, tonight I'll go to the gym, and run outside if the weather is good. If not, I'll run inside on a treadmill, then take a yoga class. After that, some more core work and stretching. Then I'll take a shower, change into fresh clothes and go home. Tomorrow could be a bike ride outside from the gym parking lot. If the weather is bad, then's it's inside on a stationary or a bike class followed by some swimming or sitting in the hottub/sauna. Or maybe it's weight training or something else. I have options. Whatever it is, I can shower after, change into fresh clothes and go home.

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Old 05-06-24, 05:18 PM
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My gym work is focused on range of motion and preventing sarcopenia, i.e. work those muscles hard enough that they don't get smaller. That's now the issue for me, rather than putting on muscle. Don't really want to do that, just maintain reasonable strength. Can't maintain the same strength that I had even 10 years ago. Not happening. No more squatting 225. Those photos one sees of massively muscular 80 y.o. folks, that's all steroids. Loss of muscle mass means fewer calories burned, which in turn means smaller portions. We just do what we can. That said, I still look pretty good, just not as cut as I was and the muscles don't perform as well. Twice a week for about an hour of steady work does it for me. I stretch in the morning, plank, pushups, but then at the gym I just move iron, though I use a couple of machines, too. TrainingPeaks gives me a hrTSS of about 40 for that hour.
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