My (slightly tearful) reaction to the Armstrong news
#1401
Grumpy Old Bugga
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,229
Bikes: Hillbrick, Malvern Star Oppy S2, Europa (R.I.P.)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 370 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
It amazes me that the Lance apologists are still going at it hammer and tongs. THAT is a measure of the damage this man has done.
#1402
Senior Member
Usada is charged with olympic sport. So, any of the professioinal sports that also participate in the olympics should be recieving appropriate scrutiny. Assuming you are reffering to American gridiron style football, it wouldn't be of concern to usada. But, soccer/football should and yet they manage to preclude wada from participating in any out of competition testing and to the best of my knowledge in competion as well, with the exception of the olympics. How? Money and influence. Cycling doesn't have enough of either to keep Wada and the IOC at bay.
I'm just as curious why a few of the other endurance sports don't see the same level of doping control and investigation, distance running and swimming are two that benefit greatly from the same sort of programs as cycling. Personally, I'm not convinced that they're any cleaner, yet we don't hear nearly as many scandals coming from those. The only explanation I have is that, with the exception of a few longer relays, there isn't as much of a team component. Additionally, you have coaches or selection committees for those team as opposed to cycling where lead riders and DS's have a greater role in roster selection, feelings get hurt, and toys get throw out of the pram by those with the ability to hurt those that have upset them.
I'm just as curious why a few of the other endurance sports don't see the same level of doping control and investigation, distance running and swimming are two that benefit greatly from the same sort of programs as cycling. Personally, I'm not convinced that they're any cleaner, yet we don't hear nearly as many scandals coming from those. The only explanation I have is that, with the exception of a few longer relays, there isn't as much of a team component. Additionally, you have coaches or selection committees for those team as opposed to cycling where lead riders and DS's have a greater role in roster selection, feelings get hurt, and toys get throw out of the pram by those with the ability to hurt those that have upset them.
__________________
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
#1403
Florida
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hudson, Florida
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I think you can argue the benefits of PED's forever and for every sport. But the truly bad & sad thing in all of this was LA's lies and his bullying, arrogant attitude towards his teammates, his friends and their families. That's the dispicable part of this.
#1404
Velo Club La Grange
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#1405
Banned.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 6,434
Bikes: '09 Felt F55, '84 Masi Cran Criterium, (2)'86 Schwinn Pelotons, '86 Look Equippe Hinault, '09 Globe Live 3 (dogtaxi), '94 Greg Lemond, '99 GT Pulse Kinesis
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked 270 Times
in
153 Posts
Armstrong is responsible for a lot of evil in this world, but not for every single clod with a half-formed opinion.
Let's be reasonable.
"Sure I doped, but don't pin Eja on me man!"
#1406
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Queens NYC
Posts: 3,175
Bikes: Colnago Super, Basso Gap, Pogliaghi, Fabio Barecci, Torelli Pista, Miyata 1400A
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 316 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times
in
13 Posts
I'm glad Lance did this interview.
I'm willing to take him at his word and to believe this confession was real and sincere. Yeah, maybe I'm a fool, but I'm willing to take that chance. It's no big deal on my part, and I'd much rather believe in this man than continue to drag him through the muck, and continue to tear him down. I enjoyed watching him race. I enjoyed seeing his dedication to the sport. I enjoyed seeing his good work at LiveStrong. I enjoyed seeing what he did for the sport here in America. I enjoyed the whole damn story! It was all good. Being that they can't even give any other rider his TDF victories makes me wonder why this all had to happen at all. What was the point of this whole thing? It was a dirty sport, and Lance just played it dirtier than anyone else. He played by the rules he found and he won - again and again and again! A lifetime ban, when the Euro riders get a slap on the wrist? Really?
Is Lance arrogant? Heck yes! Is he full of himself? Of course. But we're all flawed men here, except our flaws are not out in the open for the whole world to see. How lucky we are! I won't throw a stone at this man, because I can't. Can any of us really do that in good conscious?
I'm willing to take him at his word and to believe this confession was real and sincere. Yeah, maybe I'm a fool, but I'm willing to take that chance. It's no big deal on my part, and I'd much rather believe in this man than continue to drag him through the muck, and continue to tear him down. I enjoyed watching him race. I enjoyed seeing his dedication to the sport. I enjoyed seeing his good work at LiveStrong. I enjoyed seeing what he did for the sport here in America. I enjoyed the whole damn story! It was all good. Being that they can't even give any other rider his TDF victories makes me wonder why this all had to happen at all. What was the point of this whole thing? It was a dirty sport, and Lance just played it dirtier than anyone else. He played by the rules he found and he won - again and again and again! A lifetime ban, when the Euro riders get a slap on the wrist? Really?
Is Lance arrogant? Heck yes! Is he full of himself? Of course. But we're all flawed men here, except our flaws are not out in the open for the whole world to see. How lucky we are! I won't throw a stone at this man, because I can't. Can any of us really do that in good conscious?
__________________
It never gets easier, you just go faster. ~ Greg LeMond
#1407
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Catawampus
Posts: 306
Bikes: Sirrus, Midnight Special (almost there)
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It seems to me you suffer from a severe case of Schadenfreude with your endless ranting. An awful lot of words for a person you don't even know personally. Karma is a ***** and it works both ways.
#1408
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Catawampus
Posts: 306
Bikes: Sirrus, Midnight Special (almost there)
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
All you are is justifying illegal and unethical behaviour because everyone else was doing it. It ys true that it is the "norm" but that is all the more you should be up in arms that this investigation is not running deeper and involving the whole sport. That still does not let Lance off the hook for how he has betrayed the sport, fans and even our country.
I don't care what goes on Versus the only time I have it on is during the races and I have the volume off. TV sportscasters are the worst source of information you can find.
I don't care what goes on Versus the only time I have it on is during the races and I have the volume off. TV sportscasters are the worst source of information you can find.
#1410
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Catawampus
Posts: 306
Bikes: Sirrus, Midnight Special (almost there)
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 550 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Greg is just ticked that he didn't get popped for doping so he could stay famous.
#1411
Professional Fuss-Budget
So you're on Oprah's staff, then?
Maybe.
He tore himself down -- and a bunch of other people to boot.
I thought the point was to stop people from rationalizing their adoration of a complete bastard. Oh well.
The idea that any commentator needs to be utterly beyond reproach in order to call out Armstrong as a lying, vicious, brutal, arrogant, tactless, self-serving lifelong cheat is the last bastion of the desperate.
Originally Posted by Giacomo
maybe I'm a fool
Originally Posted by Giacomo
I'd much rather believe in this man than continue to drag him through the muck, and continue to tear him down.
Originally Posted by Giacomo
What was the point of this whole thing?
Originally Posted by Giacomo
I won't throw a stone at this man, because I can't. Can any of us really do that in good conscious?
The idea that any commentator needs to be utterly beyond reproach in order to call out Armstrong as a lying, vicious, brutal, arrogant, tactless, self-serving lifelong cheat is the last bastion of the desperate.
#1412
Velo Club La Grange
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The last bastion of the desperation is posting lame-ass jpgs.
#1413
OM boy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,374
Bikes: a bunch
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked 646 Times
in
438 Posts
All you are is justifying illegal and unethical behaviour because everyone else was doing it. It ys true that it is the "norm" but that is all the more you should be up in arms that this investigation is not running deeper and involving the whole sport. That still does not let Lance off the hook for how he has betrayed the sport, fans and even our country.
I don't care what goes on Versus the only time I have it on is during the races and I have the volume off. TV sportscasters are the worst source of information you can find.
I don't care what goes on Versus the only time I have it on is during the races and I have the volume off. TV sportscasters are the worst source of information you can find.
lance does not ( and much of current pro peloton) represent me, either as a sports example or cyclist. Hence I don;t feel betrayed.
His victories - he rode his ass off to get those titles, he prepared with a vision no one else could match. As far as I'm concerned, the vast majority of riders were dopers. I actually didn;t watch pro road racing from '99 to 04 - I was disenfranchised by the OBVIOUS doping. Then I came back to the one day classics, those I luv for their fierce intensity. I started watching the stage races again from '06 on, in spite of the continued doping.
I Don;t condone or justify the rampant doping, but until the sport is cleaned from the very basis - the UCI, the teams owners and directors - I won;t completely blame the riders. Riders are human, with the flaws. AS I said before, if they GROK what they did was wrong and they adjust and act appropriately in the future, then I can support them. If they persist, they're in the ****can. Lance has found he's not above the rest - so now he has decisions to make.
I love road racing - because of that, and because I believe the commitments to being a racer, require a considerable strength. I believe even riders as far gone as Lance, can find the way back - because cycling, the act, the essential test of self, the real high, is so strong it can pull the worst of us back.
There's nothing so bad in organized cycling that could make me truly bitter about it.
Cycling has strong Mojo, I believe in it.
#1416
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,791
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1020 Post(s)
Liked 463 Times
in
293 Posts
usually, I'm very overboard on the histrionics of flogging the Pro road cycling scene. BUT, really to single out one rider, no matter how prominant for the obvious faults of an entire Pro level of a sport (road) simply shows some earlier fairy tale vision of that pro sport. Lance won 7 tours a few other -pre-tour races, but there have been many other prominent riders who have similarly Dis'd the sport, their fans and their nations. Pinning the reputation of a nation on any single act, person, activity is belittling and dangerous.
lance does not ( and much of current pro peloton) represent me, either as a sports example or cyclist. Hence I don;t feel betrayed.
His victories - he rode his ass off to get those titles, he prepared with a vision no one else could match. As far as I'm concerned, the vast majority of riders were dopers. I actually didn;t watch pro road racing from '99 to 04 - I was disenfranchised by the OBVIOUS doping. Then I came back to the one day classics, those I luv for their fierce intensity. I started watching the stage races again from '06 on, in spite of the continued doping.
I Don;t condone or justify the rampant doping, but until the sport is cleaned from the very basis - the UCI, the teams owners and directors - I won;t completely blame the riders. Riders are human, with the flaws. AS I said before, if they GROK what they did was wrong and they adjust and act appropriately in the future, then I can support them. If they persist, they're in the ****can. Lance has found he's not above the rest - so now he has decisions to make.
I love road racing - because of that, and because I believe the commitments to being a racer, require a considerable strength. I believe even riders as far gone as Lance, can find the way back - because cycling, the act, the essential test of self, the real high, is so strong it can pull the worst of us back.
There's nothing so bad in organized cycling that could make me truly bitter about it.
Cycling has strong Mojo, I believe in it.
lance does not ( and much of current pro peloton) represent me, either as a sports example or cyclist. Hence I don;t feel betrayed.
His victories - he rode his ass off to get those titles, he prepared with a vision no one else could match. As far as I'm concerned, the vast majority of riders were dopers. I actually didn;t watch pro road racing from '99 to 04 - I was disenfranchised by the OBVIOUS doping. Then I came back to the one day classics, those I luv for their fierce intensity. I started watching the stage races again from '06 on, in spite of the continued doping.
I Don;t condone or justify the rampant doping, but until the sport is cleaned from the very basis - the UCI, the teams owners and directors - I won;t completely blame the riders. Riders are human, with the flaws. AS I said before, if they GROK what they did was wrong and they adjust and act appropriately in the future, then I can support them. If they persist, they're in the ****can. Lance has found he's not above the rest - so now he has decisions to make.
I love road racing - because of that, and because I believe the commitments to being a racer, require a considerable strength. I believe even riders as far gone as Lance, can find the way back - because cycling, the act, the essential test of self, the real high, is so strong it can pull the worst of us back.
There's nothing so bad in organized cycling that could make me truly bitter about it.
Cycling has strong Mojo, I believe in it.
#1417
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 5,791
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1020 Post(s)
Liked 463 Times
in
293 Posts
Hold on right there. Those people (Eja, coughcough) were all perfectly screwed up back when Armstrong was anatomically complete and no one in the Tour was wearing helmets.
Armstrong is responsible for a lot of evil in this world, but not for every single clod with a half-formed opinion.
Let's be reasonable.
"Sure I doped, but don't pin Eja on me man!"
Armstrong is responsible for a lot of evil in this world, but not for every single clod with a half-formed opinion.
Let's be reasonable.
"Sure I doped, but don't pin Eja on me man!"
#1420
Gouge Away
#1421
Grumpy Old Bugga
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 4,229
Bikes: Hillbrick, Malvern Star Oppy S2, Europa (R.I.P.)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 370 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times
in
6 Posts
I found fairies in the bottom of my garden today. Mind you, they're a lot more active than usual and I didn't realise they came that big, but they aren't on PEDs.
#1422
Senior Member
I didn't dope then either. Did the fairies help the garden, I am going out to look for some now. Lets ask Phil Liggett.
#1423
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Is there any way they can test his blood from 09/10 to see if he was lying? Why would he lie now about that if they can? It would only make him look more stupid. I'm assuming they kept samples.
#1424
Team ABC Cycles
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Montreal Qc.
Posts: 600
Bikes: 2010 Colnago CX-1 and '12 S-Works Venge
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Statute of limitations thing maybe? The old stuff he can admit to but recent stuff could get him in new trouble?
#1425
Gouge Away
He is not the only one who said they did not dope after 2005, all 11 team mates (fellow dopers) who testified against him said the same thing.