Originally Posted by Thylacine

I don't understand what the facination is with some of the Euro brands. Back on the late 80's/early 90's when the mass merchants were starting to hit the pacific rim and starting to actually get the quality right, brands like Colnago and Pinarello et al were caught napping and lost a boatload of sales to the new, lighter bikes not only from companies that set up in the Pacific Rim but also US brands like Cannondale and Merlin who were some of the first to venture into new materials sucessfully.

I'm very condemning of some of the big Italian names because I think most of them are solely trading on their former reputations and little else. Some of the latest models are just overpriced overrated crap, and all they have going for them is their euro-trash aesthetic. Scapins and Pegorettis are perhaps the standouts, but they fall down in the geometry department so it's hard to recommend them either.

As much as it pains me to sometimes admit it, the Seppos build some great bikes - probably the best bikes in the world at the moment. Most of which absolutely trounce most things coming out of Italy.

Sure, I'd buy an old Colnago master if I had some spare cash, but purely for nostalgia reasons...and I'd do so knowing full well that it would have 52mm of rake regardless of the head angle, weigh 5lbs and probably snap at the head tube if pushed, and look like it was painted by a 10 year old with a stencil and a spraycan.

Originally Posted by Rowan

so why don't you post this in open company rather than in a thread that the majority of 10,000 members ignore?

Originally Posted by Thylacine

I don't understand what the facination is with some of the Euro brands. Back on the late 80's/early 90's when the mass merchants were starting to hit the pacific rim and starting to actually get the quality right, brands like Colnago and Pinarello et al were caught napping and lost a boatload of sales to the new, lighter bikes not only from companies that set up in the Pacific Rim but also US brands like Cannondale and Merlin who were some of the first to venture into new materials sucessfully.

I'm very condemning of some of the big Italian names because I think most of them are solely trading on their former reputations and little else. Some of the latest models are just overpriced overrated crap, and all they have going for them is their euro-trash aesthetic. Scapins and Pegorettis are perhaps the standouts, but they fall down in the geometry department so it's hard to recommend them either.

Originally Posted by rockmuncher

And walks through the fourth to put him in the final against the big Russian on Sunday. The first Aussie in the Oz Open final since Cat Pash in 1988 (16 years!!!!). Last Aussie Oz Open winner was Mark Edmondson (from Gosford, naturally) in the 70's.

Originally Posted by thylacine

As much as it pains me to sometimes admit it, the Seppos build some great bikes - probably the best bikes in the world at the moment. Most of which absolutely trounce most things coming out of Italy.

Originally Posted by rockmuncher

And walks through the fourth to put him in the final against the big Russian on Sunday. The first Aussie in the Oz Open final since Cat Pash in 1988 (16 years!!!!). Last Aussie Oz Open winner was Mark Edmondson (from Gosford, naturally) in the 70's.

Originally Posted by lotek

OY, I have been waiting patiently for 230 pages to read this.
Thylacine, I'm thinking this should post on the framebuilders list, the CR list and maybe a private e-mail or two. . .
Seriously tho, You are right in the sense that most of the European frames
are just living on their past honors.
Masi is owned by Haro, and for the most part produced in Taiwan.
Faliero is probably spinning in his grave given what they have become.
Colnago had its heyday in the 70's. but make no mistake Ernesto is
a marketing genius, his bikes are good but nowhere near the cache/etc
of his early stuff. De Rosa? Gios? same thing.
There are non seppo builders and they make damned good frames
they just don't have the reputation of say a Richard Sachs or a
Spectrum (Tom Kellogg).
Marty

Originally Posted by SJP

I thinks part of the facination is like if you were to buy either an old Ferrari vs a new Monaro........some people just wouldnt buy a new Monaro, even though its safer, built better, handles better......but.....its not a Ferrari....

Originally Posted by pshaw

If its got to be old then...
[IMG]c:\gull.jpg[/IMG]

Originally Posted by Expatriate

In the US, old 308's can be had for the low $20k's. Then you can have the luxury of owning a Ferrari that gets absolutely spanked by a 4 cylinder Mitsubishi, or in the case of my w@nker ex-neighbor, a Honda Civic. There may be a plus side though. Do chicks dig old bikes?

Originally Posted by Expatriate

My neighbor was some computer geek that moved from Colorado to California. He was a big shot back home in his Ferrari, but with kids driving $70k cars to the high school down the street from us, no one was really impressed. I proved to him that it's still no replacement for driver skill by taking him for a little race through the canyons to the beach. Sure, I'd been driving that road for 15 years or so, but how sad is it that his 3 litre V8 got trounced by a 1500cc Civic Si? I can be such a jerk sometimes. The guy that bought his place (when his internet Co. went belly up) had a 5 series BMW with 19 inch wheels and low profile tires. I gave him essentially the same challenge, but with one caveat. We had to race in the rain. Yeah, I can be a jerk. I appreciate craftsmanship, but don't think I would buy an old bike just because it was something special "Back in the day". Substance, not image.

Originally Posted by Thylacine

Still not sure about that 'Magnum PI' Ferrari either.