Roadie's probable recklessness leaves a woman brain dead
09-19-14, 11:21 AM
#126
Friendship is Magic
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I'm not a big fan of our Strava hero here in California, either. I'm not eager to jump to conclusions,
but the picture in the Gothamist sorta is not real likely to win friends and influence people.
#toomuchRaphanotenoughsense
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09-19-14, 11:23 AM
#127
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09-19-14, 11:25 AM
#128
Mostly Harmless
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09-19-14, 12:57 PM
#129
You gonna eat that?
It's entertaining to be entertaining.
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi 
"However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.
Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
09-19-14, 01:00 PM
#130
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Well that depends on how you look at. In that area, there's a running lane, a bike lane and 2 car lanes. Cyclist, horse drawn carriages and bikes that carry people in the back (don't know what they're referred to) use the the bike and car lanes. No cars use it because they're not allowed in that area of the park unless you're cop, ambulance or park vehicle.
Also, I don't see how being in the car lane affects his guilt.
09-19-14, 01:20 PM
#131
Portland Fred
Though in my mind, it's hard to imagine that hammering on aerobars in an environment like that is a good idea. I've been to Central Park a few times, and there's no way I'd want to ride anywhere out there with something that didn't steer and brake really well. Although I saw a bunch of cyclists riding pretty fast, it's really not a good place for speed.
On the other hand, stepping into crosswalks when you see something bearing down in your direction at high speed (or failing to notice stuff like that) is not too intelligent either. I see loads of this behavior in Portland. It's a great city, but we have the most clueless and suicidal peds I've seen anywhere in my life.
09-19-14, 01:21 PM
#132
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Looking at the area in google street view, I see as many runners as cyclists in that "bike lane". Some of them running against the traffic. If I were riding there, I'd use the safety exception in the law and stick to car lanes.
Also, I don't see how being in the car lane affects his guilt.
Also, I don't see how being in the car lane affects his guilt.
as seen here:
09-19-14, 02:18 PM
#133
Senior Member
On the other hand, stepping into crosswalks when you see something bearing down in your direction at high speed (or failing to notice stuff like that) is not too intelligent either. I see loads of this behavior in Portland. It's a great city, but we have the most clueless and suicidal peds I've seen anywhere in my life.
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"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
09-19-14, 02:24 PM
#134
Senior Member
...
I'm not a big fan of our Strava hero here in California, either. I'm not eager to jump to conclusions,
but the picture in the Gothamist sorta is not real likely to win friends and influence people.
#toomuchRaphanotenoughsense
I'm not a big fan of our Strava hero here in California, either. I'm not eager to jump to conclusions,
but the picture in the Gothamist sorta is not real likely to win friends and influence people.
#toomuchRaphanotenoughsense
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
09-19-14, 02:27 PM
#135
Senior Member
20-20 hindsight to get to the obvious answer. Commendable. All the way from TX as well. Super commendable. While I've got you, I've got money on the next Seahawks game... any predictions? Or do I have to ask you after the game's been played before you give your pick?
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
09-19-14, 02:32 PM
#136
cowboy, steel horse, etc
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The Gothamist had a line mentioning that he'd swerved to avoid some other peds before taking out the woman that suffered the TBI.
09-19-14, 02:34 PM
#137
Senior Member
Nope. Actually not. Perhaps there might be variables at play that a Arkansas native might not take into account? If you have to wonder aloud why people are being irrational, perhaps you are missing some details and aren't really in a position to comment on the rationality of the choices people make, no?
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
09-19-14, 02:38 PM
#138
Senior Member
That seems to be the right guy, unless the description of being a known musician is also wrong. But the photo is not from the accident scene as in the article the source is listed as "Facebook".
09-19-14, 02:42 PM
#139
Senior Member
internet sleuth to the rescue!!! Yup, there is exactly one cycling musician in NYC and I, too, make judgement calls about people's personalities based on five year old FB photos all the time...
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
09-19-14, 02:43 PM
#140
Senior Member
Even better.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
09-19-14, 02:44 PM
#141
Senior Member
Looking at the area in google street view, I see as many runners as cyclists in that "bike lane". Some of them running against the traffic. If I were riding there, I'd use the safety exception in the law and stick to car lanes.
Also, I don't see how being in the car lane affects his guilt.
Also, I don't see how being in the car lane affects his guilt.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
09-19-14, 02:54 PM
#142
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This could have been me. I regularly ride in Central Park. I make 4 or 5 fast loops a few times a week prior to 7:30 AM and I commute through the park daily on a different bike and at a much lower pace. It's a very dangerous situation. Personally I feel safer in the streets with traffic.
Jason Marshall's picture is receiving some scrutiny here. I do know the guy, although not very well - ridden with him once or twice but he usually rides with a faster group. He and I both started out at the same time with the same club. We both ride in the early mornings so I've seen/met him frequently. I also know a number of riders who do ride with him regularly. He's got a good reputation for being a sensible and responsible rider, and all the interactions I've had have been positive. He comes across as careful and humble. He even waved to me once.
I have no idea exactly what happened during this incident but the NY Post is (predictably) making this out like some aggressive, macho, Rapha-clad freak on a $4K bike with no breaks (sic) is out there gunning for pedestrians. I expect the reality is more nuanced. I know firsthand how easy it is for a routine ride to become a cluster**** on that road. My wife took a dive off her bike to avoid a jogger with earbuds who veered into the bike lane, and I got taken out by another cyclist who was swerving to avoid a pedestrian in a similar situation. In fact, every cyclist I know in NY has come close to having this happen to them. It's a tragedy that this particular incident resulted in loss of life - but close calls on that route happen constantly and not necessarily at Strava KOM speeds.
Jason Marshall's picture is receiving some scrutiny here. I do know the guy, although not very well - ridden with him once or twice but he usually rides with a faster group. He and I both started out at the same time with the same club. We both ride in the early mornings so I've seen/met him frequently. I also know a number of riders who do ride with him regularly. He's got a good reputation for being a sensible and responsible rider, and all the interactions I've had have been positive. He comes across as careful and humble. He even waved to me once.
I have no idea exactly what happened during this incident but the NY Post is (predictably) making this out like some aggressive, macho, Rapha-clad freak on a $4K bike with no breaks (sic) is out there gunning for pedestrians. I expect the reality is more nuanced. I know firsthand how easy it is for a routine ride to become a cluster**** on that road. My wife took a dive off her bike to avoid a jogger with earbuds who veered into the bike lane, and I got taken out by another cyclist who was swerving to avoid a pedestrian in a similar situation. In fact, every cyclist I know in NY has come close to having this happen to them. It's a tragedy that this particular incident resulted in loss of life - but close calls on that route happen constantly and not necessarily at Strava KOM speeds.
09-19-14, 03:00 PM
#143
Senior Member
This could have been me. I regularly ride in Central Park. I make 4 or 5 fast loops a few times a week prior to 7:30 AM and I commute through the park daily on a different bike and at a much lower pace. It's a very dangerous situation. Personally I feel safer in the streets with traffic.
Jason Marshall's picture is receiving some scrutiny here. I do know the guy, although not very well - ridden with him once or twice but he usually rides with a faster group. He and I both started out at the same time with the same club. We both ride in the early mornings so I've seen/met him frequently. I also know a number of riders who do ride with him regularly. He's got a good reputation for being a sensible and responsible rider, and all the interactions I've had have been positive. He comes across as careful and humble. He even waved to me once.
I have no idea exactly what happened during this incident but the NY Post is (predictably) making this out like some aggressive, macho, Rapha-clad freak on a $4K bike with no breaks (sic) is out there gunning for pedestrians. I expect the reality is more nuanced. I know firsthand how easy it is for a routine ride to become a cluster**** on that road. My wife took a dive off her bike to avoid a jogger with earbuds who veered into the bike lane, and I got taken out by another cyclist who was swerving to avoid a pedestrian in a similar situation. In fact, every cyclist I know in NY has come close to having this happen to them. It's a tragedy that this particular incident resulted in loss of life - but close calls on that route happen constantly and not necessarily at Strava KOM speeds.
Jason Marshall's picture is receiving some scrutiny here. I do know the guy, although not very well - ridden with him once or twice but he usually rides with a faster group. He and I both started out at the same time with the same club. We both ride in the early mornings so I've seen/met him frequently. I also know a number of riders who do ride with him regularly. He's got a good reputation for being a sensible and responsible rider, and all the interactions I've had have been positive. He comes across as careful and humble. He even waved to me once.
I have no idea exactly what happened during this incident but the NY Post is (predictably) making this out like some aggressive, macho, Rapha-clad freak on a $4K bike with no breaks (sic) is out there gunning for pedestrians. I expect the reality is more nuanced. I know firsthand how easy it is for a routine ride to become a cluster**** on that road. My wife took a dive off her bike to avoid a jogger with earbuds who veered into the bike lane, and I got taken out by another cyclist who was swerving to avoid a pedestrian in a similar situation. In fact, every cyclist I know in NY has come close to having this happen to them. It's a tragedy that this particular incident resulted in loss of life - but close calls on that route happen constantly and not necessarily at Strava KOM speeds.
. The sucky thing about this incident is it is entirely possible that a very slight change in circumstance would have led to much less injury to the pedestrian. Something as small as her turning her head slightly (and seeing the cyclist out of the corner of her eye) or her not having her hand in her pocket (pinning it to her side) when she was hit. Very very very slight changes of circumstances and she might have lived. She likely was blindsided and hit her head in a bad way, possibly on the curb. Bad news, but there isn't necessarily a bad person or even a bad mistake. Stuff happens; sometimes people die for trivial reasons. I think we should all take a second to remember this before getting out the pitch forks.
Live without fear; kiss your kids; be nice to strangers you meet, because two minutes from now, you might be dead from something completely unforeseeable, something completely random, something utterly trivial.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 09-19-14 at 03:07 PM.
09-19-14, 03:05 PM
#144
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Added: My assumptions about what happened might be totally wrong because I got all my details from a tabloid magazine... but I still think the dude was not promoting my agenda by riding his bike too fast and on aerobars because he might not have been being unsafe and the accident could have been avoidable.
Nope. Actually not. Perhaps there might be variables at play that a Arkansas native might not take into account? If you have to wonder aloud why people are being irrational, perhaps you are missing some details and aren't really in a position to comment on the rationality of the choices people make, no?
Nope. Actually not. Perhaps there might be variables at play that a Arkansas native might not take into account? If you have to wonder aloud why people are being irrational, perhaps you are missing some details and aren't really in a position to comment on the rationality of the choices people make, no?
09-19-14, 03:05 PM
#145
Portland Fred
Added: My assumptions about what happened might be totally wrong because I got all my details from a tabloid magazine... but I still think the dude was not promoting my agenda by riding his bike too fast and on aerobars because he might not have been being unsafe and the accident could have been avoidable.
I know firsthand how easy it is for a routine ride to become a cluster**** on that road. My wife took a dive off her bike to avoid a jogger with earbuds who veered into the bike lane, and I got taken out by another cyclist who was swerving to avoid a pedestrian in a similar situation. In fact, every cyclist I know in NY has come close to having this happen to them. It's a tragedy that this particular incident resulted in loss of life - but close calls on that route happen constantly and not necessarily at Strava KOM speeds.
09-19-14, 03:13 PM
#146
Senior Member
Also, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a motorcycle rider. Not really relevant though.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Last edited by Brian Ratliff; 09-19-14 at 03:22 PM. Reason: grammar
09-19-14, 03:22 PM
#147
Senior Member
In all fairness, there aren't many urban environments where riding aerobars at speed is appropriate. Locals can contradict me, but every time I've been in Central Park (i.e. once every few years), what I noticed is that sight lines are decent, there are quite a few people, the peds wander around like stray chickens, and a lot of cyclists go faster than is appropriate in an area where people wander about like stray chickens. My recollection of CP matches the description of the place from someone who rides there.
They'll have an investigation which may or may not uncover what actually happened. But unless something really weird happened, it's likely that both parties contributed to the outcome even if circumstances beyond either ones' control set a chain of events in motion.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
09-19-14, 03:22 PM
#148
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Not my job to engage in hypotheticals. Nor yours, I suspect. The legal system will do it's thing without hurtful speculation from the peanut gallery. Hurtful because if this were just an accident, then all this hurtful speculation might ruin this guy's life forever. There is time after the legal system has done its work to determine if we should stone the guy or not.
Also, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a motorcycle rider. Not really relevant though.
Also, I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a motorcycle rider. Not really relevant though.
09-19-14, 03:34 PM
#149
Senior Member
If you would bother to follow and read all of the links posted earlier in the thread you would see that the Jason in question has been verified a couple of different ways. I didn't bother with listing all that because I didn't figure you would need to be such a dick about it. I also figured you may have done a modicum of investigating on your own before posting as much as you have.
Maybe all the info and sources listed are wrong, maybe not, I don't know. Rant on, dude.
09-19-14, 03:36 PM
#150
Senior Member
Brian, there is a consensus here. You are not among it. Yes we are speculating. All we have. Yes, it should be decided in a court of law and I presume it will be. But 'if' its true that what really happened was the guy was riding very fast in a very busy pedestrian area...where he swerved to avoid others and hit this lady, the only thing hurtful is what he did to her. I have ridden countless times among pedestrians and I always slow down. Perhaps you don't. I don't believe in being dead right.
There cannot be a consensus here, because I've read all the information and there is not enough information for anyone rational to come to a conclusion. There is a lot of fill-in-the-blank going on; a lot of projection and a lot of agenda-making, and a lot of "believing everything you read" without confirming evidence, especially considering the source and slant of the article. If you admit to speculating and you protest the objection to this speculation by saying "but if", then you don't have a leg for your "consensus" to stand on. Yes, there is a "moron" element here. Evidently.
--
To round out the response:
I'm glad you slow for pedestrians.
We'll leave it a mystery whether I do or don't.
Good for you for not wanting to die. Points demerit for using a bad pun to talk about serious stuff.
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Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter