of course not - but at the same time, there are better resources to use, and more reputable ones at that. PUMA is doing NOTHING extraordinary here with this little book of "theirs" - that is my point. The book has other motives. This, etchr, would be your cake.
Dig in.

[QUOTE=etchr]can you explain what you mean by that?
I was just saying that if someone starts riding a fixed-gear (for whatever reason), you can't expect them to be a pro right out the box.
QUOTE]


there are actually quite a few people that just start to ride fixed and turn pro.

Eric Heiden comes to mind. He was an olympic speedskater and tried track cycling and two months later he was on the olympic team.

Jennie Reed comes to mind she is currently on the National team and just started riding about 1year ago. She is now a PRO with the Spike! Professional Track Cycling Team.

this is just skateboarding from the mid-eighties all over again.

umm...
PUMA isn't claiming to be doing anything mindblowingly new or extraordinary. they are just putting it out there.
I think we're all smart enough to know that PUMA has ulterior motives to putting stuff out there.
PUMA is a business... guess what? they are trying to make money.

if someone starts riding fixed gear because of an insert in Vice magazine (or whatever), who gives a rat's ass?!?
they are riding...
THAT is the cake.

but you don't EXPECT it do you?

*yawn*
like so many others

*angry yawn*
(simpsons reference)

hey, that's cool.
I see that you are all for cycling (done your way only).
no problem with that.
start a site and post all of those better and more reputable cycling resources to use...
and then distribute it in a way that people who otherwise would not have heard of fixed-gear will also have access to the info.

go away then.

Hate to break it to you but almost every business at least tries to make money.
Last time I checked Puma was not a non-profit organization.
The book's motive is to generate sales for Puma by generating awereness (seems to be working) and by generating leads through the contest entry. It is ADVERTISING!
However, this advertising at least provides some comparatively interesting content.
The content is 100% opt-in. You alone decide if you want to see it or not.
On top of that, it is free. You can view the full content even if you don't sign-up for the contest.
Meaning you get something for close to nothing (they will still track your interaction with the piece.).
As far as advertising goes this is quite a step above the TV commercial, Pop-up, ad-banner, billboard, etc.
If you look at it for what it really is it isn't so bad.

thank you.
that's all I was saying.
I'm also just playing devil's advocate.
seems to be working.

no, THIS is the extent of your internet savvy-ness

oh lighten up.

it's a joke. jeez.
don't make me kick your ass... in Nintendo.
(another simpsons reference).

got it.

and fyi, i could give a ***** about the marketing tactics of some corporation and the fact that they are actually doing it. whatever. we live in a capitalistic (sort of) society, it's expected. and think about it, they're doing a good job if we can't stop talking about them, even if it is negative. it's all about successfully planting the brand name.

[165]'s just upset that all the pictures are of *conversions*

really? You could have fooled me. I thought they were being altruistic and just doing something for the benefit of others outside of there profit generating initiative.


Listen, my point is that while yes this may be a nice book (flashy drawings, 'cool' lingo - if you fall for that) it is nothing but a sales tool. II think most of us can agree on that and we are all wise enough to se this. What irks me is the demographic it is targeted towards: the unexperienced. Yes etchr, we all need to start somewhere (I think Msngr was the only one here born fixed...haha). Understood.
I would prefer to go to the local shop or whatever and spend time discussing this with someone who has actually done it - not some marketer trying to crawl up the ladder by 'getting on' the latest trend. It is great that they are giving some riders a voice - but then they take it and twist it to hook the latest trend seekers.

I would prefer that etchr or 46x17 or anyone from here who has built up a track bike or fixed gear bike run a class/collective and show people how to safely and properly set-up a fixed geared bike - the value in that type of interaction is invaluable to both parties (this is actually meant - no sarcasm or what have you. Experience is key in transference. Not gimmicks). Yeah, it is cool to figure it out yourself - but it would be nice if no major corporations were guiding you through it.

There are better resources and I would really hope this is not the definitive one. As an entry - perhaps.

I don't mind that book at all, it a good toilet read... I don't mind puma so much, sure they are using the trend to sell things, but they aren't really misrepresenting it so much, they are merely tapping into what was already there. I'd be more angry if it was Nike or Reebok that did it, mainly because I just don't like those companies personally. Anyways... its pretty informative and entertaining (while on the toilet or waiting in line somewhere).

There still seems to be some confusion between advertising and sharing enthusiasm and knowledge for the hell of it.

If "us" are wise enough to see it for an advertisement then why is this upsetting you?
Please give the "unexperienced" some credit to see it for what it is too. Just because they don't yet ride fixed doesn't mean they are stupid.


Ah, that bobe guy and squid are quite capeable experts on the topic.


You should come ride with us next time you are in SF. That Hooligan picknick had lots of good knowlegde sharing going on.

I liked this thread better when it had more AD&D jokes.

m.

me too.

This is right out of the Frontline episode (which you can view on the 'net) called The Merchants Of Cool. Right out of that playbook.

Hey [165] whats your determination of whether a corporation is major or not? I mean there are plenty of companies/corporations that are profitting off fixed gear cycling. is there some cutoff date that determines which are good/old/original/whatever and which are just jumping on the bandwagon for profits? I can understand the whole making a material to get people interested in something without explaining it all and how to do it safely. but thats the very point of marketing, to hook you and get you to spend your money and figure out what you actually bought later on; and yes the larger the company the more often they just use an ad agency to make something eye-catching and there is not much of a connection to the actual industry or target population.

i can't wait to see when 165 starts a non for profit fixed gear class.

the book INFORMATION is good - the pusher isn't.

Never said anyone was stupid. my issue is with PUMA. end. If Alfred and Squid and whoever the F else did this on their own, awesome. But it is what happens between the knowledge sharing on their level of understanding and technical savvy and PUMA 'publishing' it.

see above - I never contested it. And you cut off the part that made my statement. You in PR?

Glad to hear it, as I would expect. The people I met in SF were great.

Hmm, this picture seems a little contradictory...