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Helix Update?

Old 09-17-18, 07:25 PM
  #1276  
BakerKT
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Long Development Time

Originally Posted by firestorm135 View Post
Okay but seriously, it's been three years and no one thinks they are actually getting a Helix bike, right? I've been following this thread since the beginning and was holding out to buy one, but finally decided I needed to start living my life and just bought a Brompton.

Helix is like my friend who has been working on his PhD for six years and needs just a little more time to finish it... I don't understand why Peter doesn't just release it instead of tweaking the design every few months. I don't think anything will change...
Is 3 years is a long time to develop a folding bike? Check out www.crosshead.co.uk. They've been futzing with "prototypes" since 2010! And it is a way simpler design than the Helix. Maybe they're using their own money and not backer money, but, come on, 8 years to bring a bike to market (went on sale earlier this year)?
My wife and I put a deposit on 2 Helixes (Helices?) back in February 2017 and we honestly believe our bikes will be delivered, and probably this year.
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Old 09-19-18, 08:40 PM
  #1277  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Yep. The Bromptons that used to command almost-new prices and sell in a day on my area Craigslist are lasting weeks now, some with price drops. I don't think anyone is paying full pop for them.

I purchased a used M6L from Craigslist for $800 in 2005 and it was in fair shape (it was made in the 1990s). I ride that bike everywhere and even modified an ALICE pack frame to carry it on my back. In 2014 I purchased from Kinetics in the U.K. the Sturmey-Archer 8-speed conversion kit (new wheel with 8 speed hub with cables/shifter) - the bike hit a new lease on life and now it is a credible hill climber (42 tooth front sprocket - I don't need speed and I carry a lot of equipment). The sequential 8 speed hub makes the 6 speed it replaced look like junk.


I was thinking of getting the NuVinci kit from Kinetics, but and I just saw an orange M3R on eBay for $899 BIN. I'd be tossing the rear of that bike to fit the NuVinci kit (it come with a new rear triangle), so the damaged rear doesn't matter. I thought about it and the price of the used Brompton is too high at $899, as the you can have Kineics build you a brand new NuVinci Brompton for $1800 delivered. That's only $900 over the cost of the used Brompton - and near the same price if I had just the NuVinci kit purchased. I decided to pass on the used Brompton and sell some toys to fund a new Kinetics Brompton NuVinci for $1800.


Anyhow, I've been watching out for the Helix for years now and even a $2000 price tag wouldn't shock me ---- I just don't believe this bike will come out. I also don't believe the Helix will backpack (they now make a Brompton back pack harness) or travel as well. Further, once you put a Shimano 8 or 11 speed, a S-A 8 speed, a NuVinci, or the Rohloff 14 on a Brompton, I don't see Helix as a much better bike - cause a few extra pounds doesn't mean much to me, but size/portability does.


So if the Helix does come out, I'll wait and get it used - just like I did the Brompton. At this point, all the backers should just get a high end Dahon (nice bikes - they just don't fold as small or pack as neat for air travel) and experience what folding bikes are best for - taking a bike everywhere.

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Old 09-19-18, 09:23 PM
  #1278  
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I almost popped for a Kinetics 8-speed kit for my S6L the other day. Then I bought a used 8-speed Bike Friday PakiT instead!
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Old 09-20-18, 10:47 AM
  #1279  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
The Bromptons that used to command almost-new prices and sell in a day on my area Craigslist are lasting weeks now, some with price drops. I don't think anyone is paying full pop for them.
In some ways this is good news. There were places I would not take a Brompton since I was afraid to park it and walk away. With the used prices dropping the range of places where you might sensibly take a Brompton along could expand .
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Old 09-20-18, 11:46 AM
  #1280  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
I almost popped for a Kinetics 8-speed kit for my S6L the other day. Then I bought a used 8-speed Bike Friday PakiT instead!
You, my friend, are on a ROLL!!!
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Old 09-20-18, 12:50 PM
  #1281  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
I almost popped for a Kinetics 8-speed kit for my S6L the other day. Then I bought a used 8-speed Bike Friday PakiT instead!
You must be afflicted with MBS* like so many of us are.
I hear there's an ointment for that...I haven't been able to locate it though!
Congrats on the new acquisition.

*(multiple bicycle syndrome)
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Old 09-20-18, 01:56 PM
  #1282  
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Originally Posted by FolderBeholder View Post
You must be afflicted with MBS* like so many of us are.
I hear there's an ointment for that...I haven't been able to locate it though!
Congrats on the new acquisition.

*(multiple bicycle syndrome)
Hehe, I'd probably own a Helix by now if that dude would stop screwing around and sell them.
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Old 09-22-18, 12:32 PM
  #1283  
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Most of the custom parts have arrived, but the dropouts are what seem to be holding up the assembly of a final bike. The dropouts are slated to arrive mid-October..... 2018. (At least I hope itís 2018.)

Last edited by spambait11; 09-22-18 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 09-22-18, 12:51 PM
  #1284  
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Originally Posted by spambait11 View Post
Most of the custom parts have arrived, but the dropouts are what seem to be holding up the assembly of a final bike. The dropouts are slated to arrive mid-October..... 2018. (At least I hope itís 2018.)
. It was a good update showing good progress on a number of fronts including custom parts, prep for assembly and staffing.
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Old 09-22-18, 08:21 PM
  #1285  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Hehe, I'd probably own a Helix by now if that dude would stop screwing around and sell them.
I think he is starting to stop being quite so idealistic and get on track to shipping the bikes. He was talking about a DLC or carbon nitride coating option for the bike a few months ago (probably because there is a component that requires it for extra durability), and had begun exploring options to get the frame coated as an optional extra. In the last update he mentioned that they had decided to not persue that for the time being because it would introduce extra delays. I would have personally paid extra for it, but I'd rather get my bike some time this decade

As other posters have mentioned, the parts are supposed to be coming really this week, so hopefully assembly and shipping can begin soon (frames and other Helix factory made components have been in production for a little while now).
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Old 09-24-18, 01:19 PM
  #1286  
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Many pictures of parts arriving makes it look like I'll be getting my bike well before June 2019.
I have plans for it then. And if it does arrive in time, I calculate that the price savings from making
a January 2017 down payment will yield a 15% return (after tax) on my money.
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Old 09-24-18, 02:21 PM
  #1287  
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June 2019?? 4 years after the announcement? You guys really are true believers
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Old 09-24-18, 03:37 PM
  #1288  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
June 2019?? 4 years after the announcement? You guys really are true believers
The thing with kickstarter/crowdfunding is that once you get the item, if it performs well, you don't care about the wait any longer. Like buy a Brompton or other expensive bike, after you've had it a year or so, you forget about the cost. And, eventually, cost-over-time is minimal if you maintain it well.
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Old 09-29-18, 09:56 AM
  #1289  
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A backer on the Helix forum is looking to transfer their 2 bikes at what they originally pledged if anyone is interested. Low backer number would probably be in the first few weeks of delivery.
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Old 10-01-18, 10:27 AM
  #1290  
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Originally Posted by Gibsonsean View Post
A backer on the Helix forum is looking to transfer their 2 bikes at what they originally pledged if anyone is interested. Low backer number would probably be in the first few weeks of delivery.
It would interesting to see what offer is made for these bikes. No matter what anyone says, there appear to be zero bikes available for viewing ---- where are all the test/dev models that all these changes were based on?? So to me, the fair price for these two bikes is $200 at best - cause backer that's selling now has clearly given up hope and any $$$ offered is better than nothing.
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Old 10-01-18, 02:11 PM
  #1291  
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Originally Posted by Iambowie View Post

It would interesting to see what offer is made for these bikes. No matter what anyone says, there appear to be zero bikes available for viewing ---- where are all the test/dev models that all these changes were based on?? So to me, the fair price for these two bikes is $200 at best - cause backer that's selling now has clearly given up hope and any $$$ offered is better than nothing.
I have doubt that you'd succeed with that approach. Over time quite some bikes have been transferred by their initial backers, in this forum as well as elsewhere and as far as I got it typically for their initial price. There are many reasons why someone may want to step out. Frustration or lack of belief may be two of them, but after a couple of years it may also be as simple as changed needs, another bike that already got bought in the meantime or loss of interest in the product.

One can assume that the final street price for the Helix may be considerably higher than the price backers paid plus there's a long waiting list already and possibly a even longer one once and if delivery starts.

Chances that this adventure may come to a positive end within something like "foreseeable time" are possibly better than during the last years - so your idea of "200$ is better than nothing and they should be happy about it" sounds a bit simple-minded, to say it politely. If I was a backer and would like to sell an early position in the waiting queue it would clearly not be for that sum - it would probably be a better bet to wait for delivery and hope that the bike performs well, because in that case there would be surely a lot of people willing to spent reasonable money above the backers' price to get one immediately. One does not need to be a gambler to go into that direction rather than to grab 200$ now and roughly loose four to six times that amount for sure immediately.
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Old 10-01-18, 02:28 PM
  #1292  
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What makes you think this bike will be so wonderful? sorry, but good folding bikes are a dime a dozen now.
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Old 10-01-18, 02:33 PM
  #1293  
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The backer in this instance says his needs have changed.

Given the nature of the updates we get, I doubt there are any backers on the backer forum at this stage who are thinking Helix will never materialise. It more a question of when at this stage, with a percieved risk around running out of money.

As Belinonaut says, as far as is discernable from the forum, the transfers to date seem to have been for the original pledge price. Most, but not all, are between existing backers. I as a non-backer bought out a backer with a very low order number rather than go with pre-ordering or waiting for the bike to come to market.

I made the decision after reviewing the updates and weighing the relative risks against my appetite and the likely relative savings assuming the bike does come to market. The risk now looks to me significantly lower than it did back then and the savings will be at least the same.
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Old 10-01-18, 03:06 PM
  #1294  
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I am trying to locate the text of a folk proverb that might not be originally English and it says something like "Better to lose in a wise company, than to find in a fool's company". It pertains to general strategy in life where on the average it pays to engage in serious ventures rather than foolish ones that, on a case by case basis, may occasionally turn out to be successful.
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Old 10-01-18, 03:17 PM
  #1295  
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Originally Posted by Gibsonsean View Post
The backer in this instance says his needs have changed.

Given the nature of the updates we get, I doubt there are any backers on the backer forum at this stage who are thinking Helix will never materialise. It more a question of when at this stage, with a percieved risk around running out of money.

As Belinonaut says, as far as is discernable from the forum, the transfers to date seem to have been for the original pledge price. Most, but not all, are between existing backers. I as a non-backer bought out a backer with a very low order number rather than go with pre-ordering or waiting for the bike to come to market.

I made the decision after reviewing the updates and weighing the relative risks against my appetite and the likely relative savings assuming the bike does come to market. The risk now looks to me significantly lower than it did back then and the savings will be at least the same.
I did the same with my ShareRoller position (although I actually paid the original backer a bit more than he paid, basically interest on his investment over time). He sold because he had changed needs as well - over the 3+ years he finally bought a dedicated electric bike and didn't need the kit anymore. It happens, and rather than hold on and sell your item as second-hand, it can be smart to unload before delivery and definitely less stressful. If I wanted a Helix, I would not be concerned with buying a backer position now - one just has to have patience.
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Old 10-01-18, 06:36 PM
  #1296  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
What makes you think this bike will be so wonderful? sorry, but good folding bikes are a dime a dozen now.
It isn't just a good folding bike. I already have one of those.
It looks like a great folding bike, like nothing else on the market.
- Big wheels
- Fits in airline luggage without incurring oversize fees.
- Folds quickly.
- Light weight
- Titanium means durability, no corrosion, no paint scratches
You can get all those features in others, but not all in one bike.
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Old 10-01-18, 06:54 PM
  #1297  
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Btw, "$200 guy" has only posted here. You've been trolled!

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Old 10-02-18, 08:56 AM
  #1298  
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Btw, "$200 guy" has only posted here. You've been trolled!
Meh....
It called for a response.
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Old 10-02-18, 10:07 AM
  #1299  
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Originally Posted by Revoltingest View Post
Meh....
It called for a response.
No, I think he was serious and has a good point. I can't imagine that front fork design holding up under much wear to begin with.
But I hope I'm proved wrong, and I appreciate the backers' idealism and support for folding bike development.
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Old 10-02-18, 11:04 AM
  #1300  
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Originally Posted by wesgreen View Post
No, I think he was serious and has a good point. I can't imagine that front fork design holding up under much wear to begin with.
But I hope I'm proved wrong, and I appreciate the backers' idealism and support for folding bike development.
I do not think valueing a backer's position at $100 per bike is serious. I don't remember the original prices, but you're talking about a backer selling off their investment for a loss of at least $2000. Come on, that's just insulting. There's no point is giving your money away when you can just hold the position and see if the bikes show up.
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