On the bottle it says you can use it in tubes, and they say they do it over in the mtb forum. To get it in, I just spent ages with the bottle and the cone shapped applicator thing that comes with it squeezing and shaking it in. Didn't actually know if i'd got any in until it started pissing out after I pulled the tube out.

A syringe is actually a bloody good idea. Think I might go down town tonight and mug a junkie for some of his syringes.

Thylo, over in the mtb forum, them seem to think tubeless is a rort and that things are lighter and simpler if you just leave the tubes in. Or am I getting their gist wrong?

Wil, stans is just this liquid sealant you put in usually tubless tires to stop them going down when you get a puncture.

Btw, a big bottle of stans cost about the same as 2 of those fancy Specialized tubes with gunk already in them (~$45), so I thought I'd go the cheap route. Is a pain getting the stuff in though.

I run tubeless and love it, id never go back to tubes offroad. less punctures esp with kevlar sided tyres which seem really prone on tubed tyres. can be more flexible with air pressure and its jsut a lot less hassle.

as for weight? its a little heavier, but my crossmaxes are miles lighter than my old mavics. a lot depends on tyre choice.

$45 for tubes? !! farken hell. buying the LBS a second ferrari? how often are you flatting? what tyres ar eyou using as well?

i know that GEAX make a puncture repair in a can. ive never usedit but people i know have used them in races and say they are a good option. you put it ont he tube, and fill it up, works like a C02 cannister but has slime in it to seal the tyre as well. i think you get around 40 psi out of one applicaiton? if your using GEAX tyres, i can see why they invented this as they from experience pinch flat more than anything ive ever seen.

also, an old trick is to coat your tubes in talcom powder. in theory thi sis supposed to make it more slippery and less prone to pinch flats and thorns. i dont know if its an old wives tale, but maybee worth a go?

$20 for each tube. Normal tubes are about $12 so considering it's only robbery, not extortion.

Using kevlar beaded larsens at the minute. Their sidewalls don't seem to rigid to me. And I seem to be flatting every ride at the minute, hence the stans path.

Yeah, do the talc trick sometimes. I've never had problems with pinch flats though. The high volume Larsens seem pretty good with preventing that.

Good to see you guys going on about MTB stuff again.

I use GEAX (mezcal) tyres and haven't had any problems with pitch flats. Had one where the sidewall split (rock scored the side) though. But since replacing I've had no problems. Mezcals rock, fast, pretty light (540g), predictable.

Pinch flats... Try running some air in your tyres, that usually helps.


Larsons... Light yes (~500g for eXception), I also split the side wall on one. Bit of duct tape on the inside is holding it for the moment. I seemed to have a quite few flats with the larsons from thorns and other pointly things.

You mean there is another kind of cycling?

Before this week, I'd never flatted with the Larsens. Guess I've been lucky. I really like them as a tire though. Good predictable grip and not really prone to flatting, at least compared to the Hutchinson Python Airlights that came stock on my xtc2. I swear those things have thorns pre-installed on the inside. They are shocking.

Hutchinson Scorpion Tubeless here, big and heavy ones I've had a couple of flats with them (from very large objects penetrating the whole tyre) but nothing compared to tubed tyres with the pinch flats you get from those. They've done well for me and had no trouble with them, UST rocks !

I've heard the Pythons are bad for punctures and wear out quick, but they supposed to be nice to ride apart for that. I'd like to give'em a try but there like $80-90 each which is a bit over the top considering my MTB will do a couple of trips on the road a week.

I found larsons not predictable at all. I start to push them around corners, next think I know I'm lying on the ground next to my bike. Heaps of guys swear by them.

Stans NoTubes done well with the right rim/tire combo and alignment of the planets (I use Stans rims, so no probs there) is a good system. The only real issues is with 'burping', which is where you run too low a pressure and hit a bump and the tire temperarily dislodges from the rim.

From all accounts (Net reviews, dewds at the LBS) tubeless with Stans is good. A PITA, but good.

Mavic's tubeless on the otherhand is a bit different. The tires themselves have to have a massive bead and the sidewalls have to be airtight, so UST tires tend to weigh a ton. The only reason to go with Mavics system is convenience.

If you take two examples, a front Crossmax UST with Python New Gen UST tire and sealant, vs a nice handbuilt front wheel (eg: Tune hub laced via DT Super Comps to Stans ZTR Olympic rims), a Stans strip and sealant, the latter, while not as convenient as a Crossmax weights.....brace yourself....282g LESS than the Crossmax UST.

Thats an instant half a kilo off the weight of your bike, with no extra dollars out of your pocket.

Maybe that's why the guys on the mtb forum reckon tubeless is a joke, or is it because they're all hucksters?

i really like larsens ( i usee crossmarks now which are a fair bit faster) i found them really predictable. a little heavy and slow rolling, but i always knew what they where going to do ( well, most of the time). they also seem to cut through sydney sand really well.

its interesing with the GEAX mezcals , for me its the total opposite. 1st time i ran them i ended up coming off when the front just dissapeared under me around an offcamber right, leaving me with a purple and black bruise the size of a plate on my ass. i had a few pinchflats witht he, really for no big reason, the big drops they would take fine, but the smaller bumps would see tubes blow for no real good reason. i wouldnt run them again.

I like the Mezcals, but lets face it, they're not a front tire (Unless your name is Royale)

Have you seen the new Ritcheys, the Z-Min? They look pretty damn promising.

Isn't it strange peoples experinces with the same product. I can drift my Lasens like some crazy japanese dude. I fell off going up hill with the stupid squirely, crappy Pythons, TWICE!!!

This tubeless stuff seems crazy complicated. I thought I read somehwere that you can convert normal rims to tubeless. But if it's so much of a pita with the dedicated tubless stuff, such a pursuit might be a bad idea?

Thanks Saccy. I don't ride my MTB enough to get any punctures so this is all over my head.

I think some tires just take getting used to, but yeah, it is interesting.

The vast majority of your rolling resistance comes via the back tire, so I never use any of these semi-slick XC tires on the front.

I think the tubeless thing would be worth screwing around with, although I'm a total hippocrite coz I have all the stuff just sitting here but I'm too lazy to go bother the LBS for their expertise and compressor.

Stans (www.notubes.com) will convert regular rims to tubeless.

I think if you're a racing idiot, how can you NOT pass up taking 580g off your wheelset by going with some nice handbuilt wheels and Stans?

So Thylo. Are you like the Mike Garcia of wheelbuilding in Australia? Anything he can do, you can do better (for cheaper )? Or you get some arthritic, geriatric, drunk hobo living in the dumpster around the corner to do your wheels for you?

BTW, what's with your claim in yeserdays email "2006 has been the official launch year of our Scandium and Titanium models". You've been doing Titanium for a while. Or just a case of everything old is new again?

(I'm getting quite pedantic with your official prose recently aren't I? )

There's two local guys who build my wheels and they do a great job. The best wheel builder I ever used however was a woman who used to run a LBS until she decided she was too crotchety and ran away to the Blue Mountains to hide. So yeah, you're half right

2006 is the first official year, with dedicated models. Previously if someone asked for a Ti frame we could sell them one, but now we're actively promoting them. (Infact, the dude who's been posting with the handle 'Royale'? That's his Ti frame in the gallery.)

BE JEALOUS

Man. As soon as I win powerball, I'm going to get you tio make me up a touring rig, a fixie.. hell, a whole wardrobe full of bikes. Why? Farked if I know. Your bikes could be junk for all I know. Guess your propaganda must be working well.

I was going for a collection of thylacines, but unfortunatly i wrote my first one off (green machine in thylacine gallery).

Damn U turning car. Held up well considering I smashed into him doing around 30 clicks. Welds are all in tact, but the top and down tubes folded where tube is butted.

Can't wait for my new ti frame.

Ack. So thylacine bikes aren't certified for 30km/h head ons? Thylo will have to work on that.

That green thing was a nice bit of kit though. Loved the colour.

So what's it like actually owning one? Is it like owning a backyard special, or are they done alright? Or are they like Australia's answer to a Serrota? Can I expect an honest answer considering you'd most likely like your next bike to be straight with round wheels?

I got kicked out of the Serotta forums, so...err.....no.

You get a lot of attention from people because not many people have had the pleasure of seeing a thylacine. I used to always catch people checking it out and taking a closer look. I had to start carrying thylacine business cards with me. I tell you it's the slick decals and hot house lime, people can't help but look.

Fit... Yeah nice. After riding a couple of loaner bike over the last month or two which are a bit big and also my beater SS which is too small, I can really appricate the fit. Off road i found I had far greater control then on the bikes I'm riding now.

I also get a lot of attention riding my konya (yes, not kona) SS (backyard special ), but for all the wrong reasons. There usually laughing how crap it is.

lol Thylo. Could it be because they couldn't stand comparisions with their product? Couldn't be for bad manners surely?

royale, I'm pretty sure you should get a straight bike out of Thylo after that kind spruik. I know what you're saying about the fit part of the equation though. I just can't get quite right on the Giant xtc 2 I bought.