tetonrider

interesting. fasting glucose was low/normal for me, at least at that time. that was another confusing point.

thought about buying a monitoring kit to see what happened after meals, but then decided it was something off with the test and/or not actionable, so i didn't worry about it. the earlier post triggered some memories.

tommyrod74

A1C might be a better metric for assessing glycemic control in diagnosed diabetics (though it has shortcomings there as well, as it's an estimate of average blood glucose, and doesn't assess swings between high and low glucose) than it is for diagnosing DM in the first place. Fasting BG doesn't always the whole picture either.

Best tool for diagnosis is likely a combination of those 2 with a FGGT (fasting glucose tolerance test) which gives the individual a glucose solution then measures BG at regular intervals afterwards.

CMC allez

If i was you i would set my macro's at 75 grams of fat, 155 carbs, and 130 grams of protein, total cal's 1815 per day. Days you ride hard like intervals i would put most of the carbs pre and post training with some protein and keep fat low for these meals. Say pre workout 10 grams of fat, 50 grams carbs, and 20 grams of protein. Post workout the same. You should be able to get stronger while dieting if everything is right unless you less then 10% bodyfat. Just my thoughts.

carpediemracing 

I'd pick out sauces based on their fat/calorie content, then cut if possible. So a 4 serving jar of Indian sauce would go into 6 "meal" servings. Stopped using butter and oil basically because of counting. Rounded up, like I'd never use 2 Tbsp of peanut butter, even 1 Tbsp is a lot (tried it). I'd put less than a Tbsp and log a Tbsp.

Like you said you start getting a good idea of what is what.

Also like @Homebrew1 I would have 1 day where I was at or above target then 4-5 days where I was below.

I only counted calories and tried to keep fat low (15g/meal or less). I haven't dieted and tried to keep carbs low.

carpediemracing 

hm thanks.

tetonrider

low fat and low carb?

in my experience with myself and others, going low carb -- for cyclists -- needs to be approached with caution. nutrition timing (or maybe more appropriately 'nutrition matching') w/r/t intensity of training is super important. guess it is not so important for general weight loss, but if someone wants to perform, even in base, nutrition timing is a thing.

low carb often results in weight loss for folks because, well, so much of what is available in a typical american diet is carbs, so low/no carbs cuts out a ton of possibilities.

~0.5g/kg is pretty damn low, too!

no wonder you dropped a bunch of weight during that time!

Bolo Grubb

https://www.geekdesk.com/ The Geek desk is what I have for work. But the Varidesk works great for most existing desk and cubicle furniture. Both are nice and solid, don't move at all it the standing position.

The geekdesk cost around $1,000 at the time we bought it. Varidesk can be bought for around $300 or $400 dollars.

The last two suggestions there are something I have done for a long time to help maintain/lose weight. I might have to try the first three.

Homebrew01

Also, sometimes drinking will get rid of junk hunger thoughts. Have plenty of zero or low calorie drinks available.

tommyrod74

I never counsel ultra-low carbohydrate diets for anyone, especially endurance athletes. Portion control and a balanced diet is the best approach. Low-fat diets are problematic as well, though for different reasons.

Low-carb and low fat are, as you state, simplifications to achieve a lower-calorie diet.

Low-carb causes rapid water weight loss due to depleted glycogen stores. Not exactly fat tissue loss.

I counsel athletes to eat to fuel the training and recovery, and avoid excess beyond that. Whole foods, minimal processed foods or supplements, and no shortcuts. Sustainable changes not short-term crash fixes.

I'm a Registered Dietitian, and I have a MS in Human Nutrition and Dietetics.

dz_nuzz

@tommyrod74 I am interested in your views on intermittent fasting. I find that is "easier" for me than multiple smaller meals since I just have to deal with one consistent feeling of hunger vs. dealing with cravings multiple times a day if I eat lots of small snacks. From what I remember when I have looked it up is "It really doesn't matter how you cut the calories, do what works best". But I am interested to see if your MS in Nutrition says otherwise

bbbean 

This. I lost 160+ lbs, lowered blood sugar, cholesterol, BP, etc, and have kept it off for 3 years and holding. Far and away the most effective thing I did was to track everything. Whatever particular strategy you choose (low carbs, low fat, straight calories, whatever), tracking every single thing you eat with a good ap (I'm partial to My Fitness Pal, but there are others) will be educational and provide extra incentive to stick to your plan.

As others have pointed out, not only will tracking help you monitor your inputs, but you'll get a whole new appreciation for which foods actually fit your dietary needs versus the foods you thought fit your dietary needs.

One caveat - tracking is a little labor intensive at the start. Sometimes it takes a little work to find the log entries that most closely match what you're eating, and it takes practice to be accurate with portion size. But if you stick with it for a while, it becomes 2nd nature. When I started, it might take me 10-15 minutes to log a meal with lots of ingredients. Now I rarely spend more than 90 seconds logging a meal.

BB

tommyrod74

I have kind of a nuanced view on this.

I do better, personally, if I eat 3 times a day (this is assuming no training that day; if so, I aim for 60-90b carb/hr). I find 5-6 meals a day to be a chore, and most clients don't have time for it.

I try to have all clients not eat for at least 12 hours in a row out of 24. The easiest way to do it is to have dinner early and then not snack until breakfast at least 12 hours later. Some go longer; I've gone as long as 16-18 hours with no ill effects. I eat as many calories as usual per day in this case.

If you mean eating once daily, I think that's tough to do and train as well.

I've read a bit WRT minimal calorie intake, minimal activity, and life extension/longevity, but IMO the quality of life tradeoffs would be a nonstarter for anyone I know.

ancker

I use MFP as well. Tracking is much easier with the built in barcode scanner and I always round up if unsure.

Thanks for the tips in general. I'm sifting through everything and will see what I can make work for me.

dz_nuzz

This is interesting. I think I find it easier for me to eat dinner really late, wake up, do my morning ride, then eat. Otherwise I have a bunch of trouble not snacking before bed. But this sounds similar to what I tend to do.

I wasn't necessarily referring to calorie restriction / minimal eating as a lifestyle choice, that is something I just would never voluntarily do (I like food WAAYYYY too much). But I do find that kickstarting a diet with some heavy calorie restriction helps me personally since it gets me used to being hungry.

nycphotography

I cut 24 lbs from 174 to 150 this season. I am 6' tall. 49 years old.

If I can do it at 6' then you can do it at 5'7.

How did I do it? Well first, I got serious about cutting fat, and building my physique. I decided to find out if it is possible for me to get cut at my age. Ripped abs. So I set up my program, and I followed it with that goal.

Since last itme I raced, I built power, but never got rid of the last 10 lbs of belly fat (I was 158ish), my plan was to intentioally focus on cutting weight first and then worry about building power later. IT WORKED. 5 months later, I have definition in the abs. I have never had definition it the abs ever in my entire life. I am still not ripped, I still have some stubborn belly fat and love handles. I am about to do another cut cycle focusing on "fat mobilizing" situps, crunches, plank raises, side plank raises, with some arm/dumbbells work... to see if I can get it to "ripped". We will see.

My program:

a) I cut all "extraneous" carbs. No bread. no fries. no ice cream. no rice. NO POTATOES. no corn. no pasta. etc. NO BEER/ALCOHOL. OUCH!

b) I cut most extraneous fats. Alfredos, veggie dips, fatty sauces, most cheeses, etc. all gone. I eat a lot of meat, and the fats that come with it are plenty. I try to avoid fats in protein bars too. Choose brands carefully. Most protein per calorie.

b) I kept riding. But at a reduced intensity on certain rides or for most of a ride, then spirited for some 20 mile segment, etc. I replaced fewer carbs than I burned on the bike, often replacing NONE of them. I would do a 40 to 70 miler, once or twice a week, on 1 to 3 bottles, maybe a couple gels, maybe not. 1500 to 2200 calories (kj). Minimal replacement.

c) I use measured KJ to as a proxy for calories burned. Close enough, and lower than any estimator. Don't eat to replace calories though. Eat (protein) to build muscle. Your body has plenty of stored energy for whatever it needs. Don't fall for the recovery drink lie. Don't fall for the "you have to eat to ride" lie (for rides under 600 calories, or rides in zone 3 or under). If you are hypoglycemic or get dizzy, then ignore everything I say here... this worked, absolutely worked, for me, but it may not be for you. YMMV.

d) I used the Hr monitor to keep HR in Z3 or lower to keep burning fat vs sugar and to fat adapt the body for riding.

e) I had a 1 month trial at a rock climbing gym. 2x per week, climbed until arms and grip fail, then hit their few sad gym machines for a quick 15 min round. leg presses. incline sit ups. pull up crunches. ab twisters. that's about it. This got me hitting high impact gym stuff 2x week. i do high weight, low reps, especially presses, 10x on the heels (butt) and 10x on the toes (calves). If I can do more than 10 reps, I didn't have enough weight.

f) gym membership ended, I bought a $200 incline bench for home... twist situps and plank raises holding an extended dumbbell. I bought a $40 padded 4x8 folding gymnastics mat for crunches, side plank raises, push ups. Also do single arm curls and side and front lifts with dumbbells (bought 2 x 10lb, 2 x 20 lb, 2 x 30 lb). Again, 2x week, high weight low rep, or bodyweight. 15-20 minutes.

g) gym / military work makes a huge difference. boosts testosterone, metabolism, and HGH production. HUGE DIFFERENCE IN CUTTING FAT AND BUILDNG MUSCLE.

h) I ran HARD calorie deficits, for days at a time. no breakfast (I already was a 2 meal a day person), no sugar in the coffee, changed to black iced coffee at work, 2-3 triple zero yogurts for lunch (300 cal) and a mix and match of protein shake (milk + whey no flavor no sugar), protein bar (pure protein brand is 20g protein in a 200 cal bar), boiled eggs, or can of butter beans w/ salt pepper and olive oil for dinner. Some combination of that for around 600 to 800 calories, with a daily total of 1200 or so.

i) I cut 1, 2, maybe 3 weeks, then let it bounce for a week (not pigging out, but maybe having some pizza and a beer, some fried chicken, etc).

j) I rode. I rode. I rode. After riding, my recovery drink was 2 scoops whey powder in 8 oz 1% milk. NO SUGAR. My riding was NOT structured training, but it was not random either. Lots of Z2 Z3 miles, plus some intensity here and there.

k) As I bottomed around 148, I allowed myself more variety in food... but kept it protein focused and away from "extraneous" carbs. mostly avoided extranous fats. Still sometimes eat 3 pieces fried chicken (with nothing else) for dinner.

Short version: eat almost exclusively high protein foods. cut almost all carbs. gym work, esp abs. ride miles. don't replace sugar burned on the bike.

It definitely worked for me.

nycphotography

Snacking before bed... i stand and debate if i REALLY want it, and then try to make it a protein snack. triple zero yogurt. boiled egg. 200 cal 20g protein bar.

I allow myself a beer sometimes. I allow myself some pasta or chips sometimes. But every time I tell myself that if I eat this it will take longer to hit my goals. IS THIS BEER WORTH IT? IS THIS PIZZA WORTH IT?

tetonrider

+1. The moment someone talks to me about dieting rather than lifestyle changes, the conversation is pretty much over.

tetonrider

this is just not great advice for someone trying to train/race at a high level. eating basically protein is fine for weight loss (i.e. it works by simply restricting calories by restricting the foods one can eat). i mention this because this is a racing forum, and the questions tend to be about weight loss w/r/t maintaining abilities.

i'd even be hesitant to advocate this approach in the off-season, unless carefully monitored.

tetonrider

yes. i think that many people wind up confusing feelings of thirst with feelings of hunger. if one is hungry, drinking water sometimes satisfies that feeling; at worst, it can delay the eating if it was true hunger or cause us to eat a little less.

i'm not tommyrod, but here's my take:

if someone is interested in losing weight, it can be easy, hard or impossible. this is the interesting part of nutrition/weight loss to me--that individuals respond in different ways to different programs, and it's about finding what works best for that individual. what is easy for rider A may be unsustainable for rider B (in terms of eating patterns).

at a basic level, calories are calories, and just eating fewer calories works well for raw weight loss -- especially if we put aside issues like fueling for workouts aside or, say, spiking blood sugar (/insulin response). an oreo at 11pm is not worse than one at 3pm (from a weight loss perspective), but that myth has been widely perpetuated.

all that said, some types of food tend to be more satiating than others, and being satiated for a longer period of time makes it easier to eat a bit less thoughout the day. fiber content can become relevant.

at some point, though, weight loss does mean being at least *a little* hungry. i know, duh, but there are people out there who don't get that.

carpediemracing 

Never done both, just low fat. I was afraid of fat and, to some extent, sugar (which I know is carbs, but I seem to react a bit differently to sugar than to something like green beans.

Now I'm afraid of carbs, but maybe not so much based on endurance athlete A1C stuff. If that's the case then maybe I'll just do my thing with the low fat.

15g fat/meal. That was one of my metrics when I dieted. I often stayed well below my target. 15g was a lot.

Ygduf

I'm not against using tools. Nicotine gum has been a great assist in my getting from 185 to 178. Don't knock it until you WebMD it.

I also eat barely any carbs except for immediately after rides, and most of the carbs I eat are from fruits.

I can do hard 3-hour rides without any food at this point. I get back, eat an apple, oatmeal, and then it's back to hard boiled eggs, brussels sprouts and fats/protein.

tetonrider

i wasn't worried about it at the time because i had no family history, BF < 10%, great diet by all standards, exercise 12+ hours/week.

sounds like you are carrying some extra LBs, maybe, and i know you do the super-duper low volume thing (but it is more exercise than most)... can't tell you whether or not to pay attention to it, but if all those things are in order and cannot be improved, that's how i would evaluate. what else can ya do?

tetonrider

any downsides?


even if you're really fat-adapted, we've all got about the same amount of glycogen, and throw in a few of those climbs that you do at that power of yours.... wouldn't take that much to deplete. using carbs during a ride isn't a bad thing. i know you are not saying that -- i just don't want people to be afraid of it.

at a certain point they are necessary, and at a slightly lower point they can be helpful.

IOW you might go harder/faster by eating a few carbs during those rides and net the same calorie deficit.

sounds like your diet is pretty damn good. i get a huge amount of my carbs from veggies and fruits. it's also nearly impossible to overeat veggies (volume).

Ygduf

No real downsides to the gum. A cigarette has, on average, like 8-12mg of nicotine in it. The gum has 2mg, and I chew maybe 3 pieces a day as an appetite suppressant and alternative to coffee later in the afternoon as the half-life is only 2 hours.

I do eat during races or if I'm doing a climb at power. Not crazy. Today I did totally drag ass the last 15 minutes back to my office.

scheibo

nicotine gum sounds risky AF.