Way back in the LA days, a reporter asked Lance how he kept such close track of what he was eating. His reply: "It's written on the side of the box." I don't eat that way or know anyone who does so currently. Decades ago, T1 diabetics weighed everything they ate, looked up the nutritional breakdown, assigned a value. Is that what we're doing now if we eat natural foods?

I weigh myself every morning and go by that. BTW, I've increased my protein and am now slowly gaining weight. My scale says it's some muscle, some fat. I better ride more. I'm already eating about 1/4 of what I did in my 20s, don't really want to cut back much more. A lot of my protein comes from whey isolate, fewest calories that way.

Pouring down rain here, river's rising and our shop's going to flood, so no riding indoors or out for a few days. I don't find the stepmill at the gym to be that much fun. Oh well. Our apartment is several feet higher than the shop, so we're good there.

Darn it. Of course you are right.

As an aside, we got our monthly issue of Consumer's Reports today and it has an article about supplements. Of protein supplements, to continue this thread, it said you need 54g for a 150 lb person (close to my weight), which according to other "experts" seems be about half. What a condry.

To confuse matters even more, as I mentioned above, I am trying to track my intake via Cronometer. Even with tonight's 8oz beef tenderloin, I am short on protein. Am I wasting away or am I terrible at using the app? It says my steak was 75% protein, coming in at 60gm.

I think it is worth keeping some consistent protein intake structure day after day, like some protein food(s) that one will eat no matter what (almost).

For me it is 6-7 eggs, 200 grams of full-fat Greek yogurt, and 1 tin of sardines, herring, or anchovies (or less often mackerel or tuna), which are items that I can find almost everywhere and which give at least 70 grams of protein. Then I might eat some more fish, or a bit of meat, cheese, and nuts; other small things will also add to the total.

bblair The body can probably "get by" with a very limited amount of protein, but since protein plays such a key role in many different components, like muscles, enzymes, immune system, hormones, and so on, it is probably better to get a bit more than a bit less. Fortunately, if you stick with a natural, human diet of real food, you'd be hard pressed to overdo it, like, I ate a whole chicken once for lunch with its skin and fat and I couldn't think of anything food related for the rest of the day, that thing was digesting until the next day (this was just an exception btw).

Carbonfiberboy I hope the flood doesn't cause too serious issues :/

The common stated advice for protein is 0.8 to 1.6 grams per kilogram of body weight. So 54 grams is the lower limit recommendation for a 150 lbs (68kg) person. The other experts here you allude to might be assuming a person that does a lot of physical activity. And that will likely get a recommendation of 108 grams of protein.

You just need to decide whether you do enough hard physical activity to justify being on the high side. Two or three bike rides a week probably does not alone justify the upper end. IMO.

If you are on the low side of the intake, then do you have any of these symptoms? https://health.clevelandclinic.org/p...iency-symptoms

If not, you are probably good enough for protein. Till you can come up with some reason why you need more.

And your steak that night probably isn't the only protein you got that day. So it's likely you got enough. Without needing protein supplements.

And that un-memorialized handful of chips may have had 2g of protein. <grin>

What are your blood lipid levels, particularly LDL-cholesterol and triglycerides?

91 mg/dl for LDL-C and 28 mg/dl for TGs. But of the things I listed nothing really raises LDL-C or TGs anyway. Mixing sardines and eggs will get you: high-quality protein, a lot of ω3s, high calcium, vitamin D, all vitamins B, choline, and other things, which actually support heart health. Then Greek yogurt is a bonus for the gut.

It is also stated in the report that we have no reference values for LDL-C, but it is suggested that it can start to be problematic for values higher than 190 mg/dl (especially when other risk factors are involved).

LDL-c doesn't start to be problematic above 190 mg/dl. The risk starts growing well below that amount, and it continues to rise more quickly.

Here's a rough estimate of coronary heart disease risk vs LDL-c levels, normalized to 100 mg/dL:


For optimal heart health, I'd aim for as low an LDL-c level as you can manage. The medical guidelines call for controlling to less than 100, but I think that is still too high.

Thanks for that link. No, I do not have any of those signs or symptoms, so I guess I am ok. Not to be dismissed in my mind is that protein shakes have a fairly high caloric number, so that means having to remove something else to make up for it.

FWIW - My LDL-C has hovered around 60, going way back. I still had 3 stents and then a CABG in April which replaced my two major coronary arteries. Of course, life isn't fair and all that, but there it is.

Thanks, I'll take a hard pass on that though and will stick to our French doctors, biology, common sense, etc.

Do you also have the graph for absolute risk? And, sure, there is an association between LDL-C and cardiovascular disease mortality (it's not even a key causal factor, but whatever); what about LDL-C and neurodegenerative disease mortality, cancer mortality, or all-cause mortality?

Here is a more informative graph that relates to protein, which is also the topic of the thread:

I'm not surprised. Shopping for a doctor who supports one's lifestyle choices is a common strategy. And all the scientific data in the world may be powerless when confronted by common sense. It's a powerful drug.

Although this will likely fall on deaf ears, since France is in Europe, the European Society of Cardiology recommends roughly the same LCL-c levels (>100 mg/dL for the general population, lower for high risk groups).

What about absolute risk? Well, you have to make lots of assumptions to produce a single line on a graph. With that in mind, assuming a healthy adult male in his 60s with no prior cardiovascular disease:

I use cholate flavor whey protein. I've been using Nutricost Whey Protein Isolate, chocolate flavor, just shook in a flask with plain water for many years. Quite palatable. 4 calories/gram. This flask is excellent for mixing in a powder:
https://www.amazon.com/VIGIND-Protei...dp/B08S3VHM6D/

Yes, one does have to subtract that but it's not so much.

To be fair, if the general population is shoving sugar, maltodextrin, and other garbage down their throats, they could be considered high risk already

We don't "shop for" doctors here, they are reasonable people anyway and have a discussion with you to obtain a complete profile about you. For example, if you are social, relaxed, thin/fit, physically active, eat relatively clean, do not have any immune or other disorders, and are overall healthy, you can have an LDL-C around 150 mg/dl occasionally, like a 60+-year old friend of mine has had, and they will give some dietary/lifestyle advice and monitor you more closely; my friend was told to replace cow-milk cheese with sheep- or goat-milk cheese, which is actually good advice.

On the advice of others here, I began tracking my diet with the Cronometer phone app. Pretty rare that I get 1.5 gm/Kg of protein a day, I would not have guessed that. I am slowly introducing a whey protein drink and I'll see how that effects my gut.

Interesting note: the "protein bar" that happened to have in the cubboard had half as much protein and twice the calories and probably three times the cost per serving. But it is easy to carry and keep in the car.

I am not sure how I will know, short term, if this is beneficial. I guess, ask me when I turn 80 if it worked.

How much protein do you need...it depends. This gives you an idea.

Why do you think you need that much?

Yes, I know that Chat gpt is not a recognized authority. But, the advice is consistent with what I have read in many places, including here on BF. Do you not agree? Then in your opinion, what is the desired amount for someone my age?
Given what I know about you — ~70-year-old male, ~140–142 lb (≈64 kg), serious cyclist, lean and active — your protein needs are a bit higher than the generic RDA.

Your target protein intake

Baseline minimum (RDA – too low for you)

• 0.8 g/kg/day → ~50 g/day
  
• This prevents deficiency, not muscle loss or performance decline.
  

Recommended for you (active, older athlete)

• 1.2–1.6 g/kg/day
  
• That’s 75–100 g of protein per day
  

This range is well supported for:

• Preserving muscle (sarcopenia prevention)
  
• Supporting cycling training and recovery
  
• Bone health
  
• Immune function
  

For someone your size and activity level, I’d aim for ~85–95 g/day most days.

AI is just doing what others do. Regurgitating what it reads without really knowing. I find that the AI response suggests pretty much the same amounts no matter if the amount of exercise is not specified or is stated. And whether it's stated as 90 minutes per week or 1000 minutes per week cycling. And pretty much not change if telling it you do HIIT in those amounts of time too. Or resistance exercise too.

I just look to get the minimum of 0.8 grams / kg body weight for days I'm not active. And then increase it for times I'm active. For cycling, I usually get that as a post ride drink with whey powder or other protein I might eat.

Eating near the max recommended as a daily thing seems like it'd have one potentially eating too many Calories. Especially if you are trying to balance the carb's and fat at their recommended percentages to the protein.

If you truly are very active doing strenuous stuff daily for decent periods of time, then perhaps your target is correct.

But yes, this is just IMO. I'm not sure the others you claim are also saying you need that much on a daily basis really are. I always take them as saying what you need daily on the days you actually are active.

I guess you are very active! Cronometer recommend at least 0.8 g per kilo, and even though I'm vegetarian I had no issue with that intake (on average of course, you can not fill all targets every day)... That said I was not riding or exercising a lot when I was using Cronometer, so most of the time I didn't log any activity. Also I was much younger, maybe those recommendations rise with age...

Weirdly enough it was calories that were often lacking in my diet, I was often around or even below 2000 Cal when most recommended nutriments were already OK.

Just thought I'd post a personal update here.

Trying to get recommended protein through diet alone, but really difficult. I usually don't eat that much. So I ventured into trying whey protein drinks.

Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard-I like the vanilla taste alot. But half the time it gives me major bowel problems.
Dymatize ISO 100- chocolate. Also like the taste, but seems to be easier on the gut, although small sample size.

Gatoraide Protein bars-like a giant Snickers. Very high in calories and fat. Too much, could hardly finish.
Go Macro Bars- I really like these. Half the protein of others though. But also half the calories. I use these on rides, when I can find them. Mostly just at Trader Joe's and Whole Foods, neither of which are on our weekly grocery rotation.

What I really need to figure out is how to get more protein at breakfast.

Hey bblair,

Heavy metal contamination of protein powders was in the news recently, so if you are doing this for health you should give that some thought. The best resource I found was the Clean Label Project: https://cleanlabelproject.org/protei...20Certified%3A There is some data from Consumer Reports also available, but the CLP was more comprehensive and free.

On my vegetarian diet I usually need two scoops daily of protein powder to meet my protein goals. Plus my nutty home made granola for breakfast with 25g (but 800 calories). Lots of pulses for other meals and sometimes yoghurt rounds out the total. Occasionally I stray from my veg diet and eat a dead animal.

I have tried a bunch of protein powders but can't comment on any stomach problems - that's not my issue fortunately. Must have been all that dirt I ate as a kid.

Protein powders are just a coctail of chemicals there is nothing healthy about them. Even those that are tested and supposedly clean and free from heavy metals still contain artificial ingredients that are bad for the digestive system. The most likely culprit responsible for your bowel problems and digestive issues is an artificial sweetener called Sucralose. This chemical sweetener destroys gut bacteria and causes all kinds of digestive issues. Go and read an ingredients label on all the major popular protein powder supplements and you will see a list of chemicals and additives which aren't even food. If you need more protein in your diet just start eating larger portions of foods high in protein, it's as simple as that. Nobody needs protein powders. they're completely unnecessary.

":Nobody needs protein powders. they're completely unnecessary."

That is what I am trying to figure out.
As to the lead, I did read the Consumers Reports article and chose product that tested lowest. It seems that the plant-based powders had more lead than whey-based one, in general.

And to the "full of chemical" criticism, well, everything is chemical, right? Some are unhealthy, some good for us, many neutral.

But taking all of that into account, I do fully agree that achieving dietary goals through food is best. But if the new-and-improved guidelines are to believed, then it is difficult (at least for me) to ingest that amount of protein. I eat a lot of grilled salmon and turkey sandwiches and that does not seem to be enough.

Some chemicals such as Sucralose is very easy to avoid by not buying products that contain it. Sucralose in protein powders is well known for causing digestive issues and causing all kinds of bowel problems. Personally I refuse to consume that crap and I just get protein from food.

Not arguing.

I have been trying to track via the Cronometer app. Today: bagel with nutbutter for breakfast. Roast beef sandwich for lunch and bison chili for dinner. According the app, that gives me around 65g of protein. Not even close to recommended amount and I am pretty full.