For the love of English 3 speeds...
12-28-18, 09:59 PM
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12-29-18, 06:06 AM
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I've never had an SW hub. It will be interesting to hear if it's bad reputation is deserved or not. I think the rest of the design would have been fine if they stuck to regular spring loaded pawls. Even if you do end up lacing in an AW, this bike will be worth the effort. I think it will look almost new when you're done.
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12-29-18, 10:56 AM
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I've never had an SW hub. It will be interesting to hear if it's bad reputation is deserved or not. I think the rest of the design would have been fine if they stuck to regular spring loaded pawls. Even if you do end up lacing in an AW, this bike will be worth the effort. I think it will look almost new when you're done.
The disadvantage is that the pawls often take longer to engage. This is particularly an issue in cold weather, and sometimes several complete crank revolutions are needed before they finally engage.
Sheldon Brown describes a modification to add springs to the SW hub to provide quick, consistent pawl engagement. One of my hubs is modified in this manner. It works, but since the pawls actually bear on the springs, the springs eventually wear out and have to be replaced. But as mentioned above, overhaul is dead-easy.
12-29-18, 12:00 PM
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I've 2 SW's and both have worked fine but I've never tested them with winter temps.
12-29-18, 01:56 PM
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I have a couple SW hubs. The biggest advantage is that they are dead-easy to overhaul: fewer internal parts than the AW hub, and no fiddly pawl springs to lose. They're also eerie-quiet in use. You have to have your ear right next to the hub to hear the pawls at all when coasting.
The disadvantage is that the pawls often take longer to engage. This is particularly an issue in cold weather, and sometimes several complete crank revolutions are needed before they finally engage.
Sheldon Brown describes a modification to add springs to the SW hub to provide quick, consistent pawl engagement. One of my hubs is modified in this manner. It works, but since the pawls actually bear on the springs, the springs eventually wear out and have to be replaced. But as mentioned above, overhaul is dead-easy.
The disadvantage is that the pawls often take longer to engage. This is particularly an issue in cold weather, and sometimes several complete crank revolutions are needed before they finally engage.
Sheldon Brown describes a modification to add springs to the SW hub to provide quick, consistent pawl engagement. One of my hubs is modified in this manner. It works, but since the pawls actually bear on the springs, the springs eventually wear out and have to be replaced. But as mentioned above, overhaul is dead-easy.
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12-29-18, 02:40 PM
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Technologically we're nearly on the same page. Using an AW hub we have internao ratios of 1.33/1.00/0.75. The rear mean ratio is therefore 1.33, so the chainring ratio should be 1.167. With a 44 tooth big front ring, I get a top gear of 94 inches, with a 27" wheel with 630x32 tires. The related half-step small ring should be 38 teeth, which gets a low gear of 40 inches. This does not seem very low, though the low gear with 48 teeth / 17 teeth is 58". But this is a true half-step: there are not duplications, and the spread of gears is totally even.
What I prefer is not a true half step, and it uses the AW rarios, 17 teeth in the rear, and 44/28 chainrings. Here the gear range is 33.75" up to 94.3". While the gears overlap making for an Alpine or crossover shift pattern, there are no duplications - you get 6 distinct gears, though the spread does not match the evenness of the 44/37.
With that frame or with others did you have to deal with the 1 ⅜ x 26 tpi threading issue? Or did you have the foresight to only choose frames with true BSC threading?
What I prefer is not a true half step, and it uses the AW rarios, 17 teeth in the rear, and 44/28 chainrings. Here the gear range is 33.75" up to 94.3". While the gears overlap making for an Alpine or crossover shift pattern, there are no duplications - you get 6 distinct gears, though the spread does not match the evenness of the 44/37.
With that frame or with others did you have to deal with the 1 ⅜ x 26 tpi threading issue? Or did you have the foresight to only choose frames with true BSC threading?
12-30-18, 10:14 AM
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I've never had an SW hub. It will be interesting to hear if it's bad reputation is deserved or not. I think the rest of the design would have been fine if they stuck to regular spring loaded pawls. Even if you do end up lacing in an AW, this bike will be worth the effort. I think it will look almost new when you're done.
12-30-18, 11:25 AM
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Hi BigChief: According to Sheldon it is slower changing gear but otherwise for normal riding it works well as long as correct lubricant is used (I assume 3in1 Bicycle Oil), I imagine a thicker oil will gum up the pawls and cause them to stick or act too slowly. I guess general users may not have taken much notice of this at the time, using whatever is to hand hence its bad reputation. I will find out more once the bike it overhauled and ridden and will report here. At this point I don't intend/or want to change the hub, it is part of the bike history. Time will tell as the saying goes.
12-30-18, 02:06 PM
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Hi: That is useful information, will bear that in mind, thanks.
12-30-18, 02:13 PM
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Opinions, advice, thoughts, and rebuttals...
Greetings~ Due to a sick leave, I've found myself with too much time on my hands. Not one to do the "sit and relax" well, I've been contemplating what to do with an English 3 Speed I acquired from a storage barn nearby. She'll be 63 years old this new year ('56 Hercules, #B 1405). I think, the best I can tell, it's a Hercules "New Yorker" marketed to the U.S. market by TI/Raleigh/Hercules/etc. I gave it a light cleaning, quick lube, tire inflate, and everything works well! Considering I paid $60.00 for what you see, I feel it's a bargain if for no other reason than it was the kinda bike my Dad enjoyed.
My question(s); 1). The frame is rubbed(beyond just scratched) in several places down past the primer(which looks like black paint) to the metal due to bad storage and less than adequate moving on the back of pickups. Being type-A, it's difficult for me not to want to strip and repaint. Is this not advisable, or is this not that valuable that it even matters? If not to paint, suggestions on how to "******" rust? 2) Is there a resource for decals? The chain guard shape and graphic is what first attracted my attention. I'd like to ride it on decent days; I see it as a nice boardwalk ride.
Appreciate all thoughts~ Doug
My question(s); 1). The frame is rubbed(beyond just scratched) in several places down past the primer(which looks like black paint) to the metal due to bad storage and less than adequate moving on the back of pickups. Being type-A, it's difficult for me not to want to strip and repaint. Is this not advisable, or is this not that valuable that it even matters? If not to paint, suggestions on how to "******" rust? 2) Is there a resource for decals? The chain guard shape and graphic is what first attracted my attention. I'd like to ride it on decent days; I see it as a nice boardwalk ride.
Appreciate all thoughts~ Doug
12-30-18, 02:45 PM
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A very clean and original looking bike.
The saddle alone is worth the purchase price.
As the original paint looks quite good I would
leave as is and consider the wear areas a
natural patina.
I would think your time better spent cleaning, repacking bearings
and replacing cables (Keep the original casings)
Upgrade the brake pads.
Chain looks newish and the tires as well.
Good score.
The saddle alone is worth the purchase price.
As the original paint looks quite good I would
leave as is and consider the wear areas a
natural patina.
I would think your time better spent cleaning, repacking bearings
and replacing cables (Keep the original casings)
Upgrade the brake pads.
Chain looks newish and the tires as well.
Good score.
12-30-18, 02:51 PM
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Greetings~ Due to a sick leave, I've found myself with too much time on my hands. Not one to do the "sit and relax" well, I've been contemplating what to do with an English 3 Speed I acquired from a storage barn nearby. She'll be 63 years old this new year ('56 Hercules, #B 1405). I think, the best I can tell, it's a Hercules "New Yorker" marketed to the U.S. market by TI/Raleigh/Hercules/etc. I gave it a light cleaning, quick lube, tire inflate, and everything works well! Considering I paid $60.00 for what you see, I feel it's a bargain if for no other reason than it was the kinda bike my Dad enjoyed.
My question(s); 1). The frame is rubbed(beyond just scratched) in several places down past the primer(which looks like black paint) to the metal due to bad storage and less than adequate moving on the back of pickups. Being type-A, it's difficult for me not to want to strip and repaint. Is this not advisable, or is this not that valuable that it even matters? If not to paint, suggestions on how to "******" rust? 2) Is there a resource for decals? The chain guard shape and graphic is what first attracted my attention. I'd like to ride it on decent days; I see it as a nice boardwalk ride.
Appreciate all thoughts~ Doug
My question(s); 1). The frame is rubbed(beyond just scratched) in several places down past the primer(which looks like black paint) to the metal due to bad storage and less than adequate moving on the back of pickups. Being type-A, it's difficult for me not to want to strip and repaint. Is this not advisable, or is this not that valuable that it even matters? If not to paint, suggestions on how to "******" rust? 2) Is there a resource for decals? The chain guard shape and graphic is what first attracted my attention. I'd like to ride it on decent days; I see it as a nice boardwalk ride.
Appreciate all thoughts~ Doug
12-30-18, 05:58 PM
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That's a nice 50s Hercules. Good find. It would have originally had a Her-cu-matic Trigger shifter. This style SA shifter is later than the bike, 64 or so. I see, what looks like Hunt Wilde grips. These were common American aftermarket grips. I don't know, but I'm going to guess that this bike originally had white grips and white cable housings.I would also leave the paint as is. Just a polish and wax.
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12-30-18, 08:52 PM
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Tourists...
‘71 & ‘74
I had a bunch of Raleighs for sale. KInda had them tucked in for the winter but renewed a cl ad just because.
People did the usual cl thing and most of the sales didn’t happen.
Before putting everything away again I took two of the Tourists out for a short toot.
Two surprises...number one being the standover...these things are tall! Too tall, almost too tall for me! I ride between 56cm-60cm!
Number two, these are the Crown Vic’s of the bike world! What a great ride!
Dragging these into my shop!
Oh yeah. Number three thing...they are long!
My shop(s) are jacked to begin with!
I’ll have to move +or- 6 road bikes to make this work!
Last edited by billnuke1; 12-30-18 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Adding pics...
12-31-18, 02:33 AM
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That's a nice 50s Hercules. Good find. It would have originally had a Her-cu-matic Trigger shifter. This style SA shifter is later than the bike, 64 or so. I see, what looks like Hunt Wilde grips. These were common American aftermarket grips. I don't know, but I'm going to guess that this bike originally had white grips and white cable housings.I would also leave the paint as is. Just a polish and wax.
If you want to repaint a frame there are plenty of old bikes that are ten times worse than your old campaigner. Decals for the mass-produced bikes are now very easy to obtain on the web.
The wear mark on the top tube suggests the bike has seen many many miles. Whoever owned it certainly took great care of it.
Finally the color would be near impossible to match with modern paint.
Really nice red bike.
12-31-18, 07:02 AM
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‘71 & ‘74
I had a bunch of Raleighs for sale. KInda had them tucked in for the winter but renewed a cl ad just because.
People did the usual cl thing and most of the sales didn’t happen.
Before putting everything away again I took two of the Tourists out for a short toot.
Two surprises...number one being the standover...these things are tall! Too tall, almost too tall for me! I ride between 56cm-60cm!
Number two, these are the Crown Vic’s of the bike world! What a great ride!
Dragging these into my shop!
Oh yeah. Number three thing...they are long!
My shop(s) are jacked to begin with!
I’ll have to move +or- 6 road bikes to make this work!
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12-31-18, 08:44 AM
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I was one of the potential buyers doing "the usual cl thing" -- meaning, I think, that I dithered. Sorry, Bill. We probably had a deal for one, but I ran out of time and had to leave town.
Bill would like to do a package deal of a few bikes and some parts. He's a solid, trustable, and knowledgeable guy. When I return to the Cape in spring, if he still has some 3-speeds, I'd like to buy a bike. I wish I got one of his Tourists which isn't not far from being a stunner. You should buy his bikes.
Bill uses the "make me an offer" sales method. On fixed-priced cl purchase ads, I don't think I've ever showed up and not bought. I personally prefer the fixed-price sales or expressed price with an OBO. (If a bike isn't as good as advertised or looked in photos, negotiation seems appropriate.) When I sell, I list a price that I'm pretty firm on. ...just me.
I did buy a '63 Humber yesterday and loved the transaction from first email to waving good-bye in the seller's driveway. Wished I'd saved the ad with craigslist ad saver (Home - Craigslist Ad Saver) but the ad read: "HUMBER - the bicycle architects of England made this quality 3 speed - Rolls good - nice patina - fenders and chain guard are in near perfect shape - good tires - 26 inch - all speeds work - rare to find everything in such great shape. Collector bike or ride it. - had dual baskets in the back. Fair and firm price. $70." Oiled-finish, black frame. A coaster brake is great to have for rainy days. I usually buy them needing more work. I'm thinking I'll re-paint the mudguard white tail, change-out the kickstand, and ride it.
Bill would like to do a package deal of a few bikes and some parts. He's a solid, trustable, and knowledgeable guy. When I return to the Cape in spring, if he still has some 3-speeds, I'd like to buy a bike. I wish I got one of his Tourists which isn't not far from being a stunner. You should buy his bikes.
Bill uses the "make me an offer" sales method. On fixed-priced cl purchase ads, I don't think I've ever showed up and not bought. I personally prefer the fixed-price sales or expressed price with an OBO. (If a bike isn't as good as advertised or looked in photos, negotiation seems appropriate.) When I sell, I list a price that I'm pretty firm on. ...just me.
I did buy a '63 Humber yesterday and loved the transaction from first email to waving good-bye in the seller's driveway. Wished I'd saved the ad with craigslist ad saver (Home - Craigslist Ad Saver) but the ad read: "HUMBER - the bicycle architects of England made this quality 3 speed - Rolls good - nice patina - fenders and chain guard are in near perfect shape - good tires - 26 inch - all speeds work - rare to find everything in such great shape. Collector bike or ride it. - had dual baskets in the back. Fair and firm price. $70." Oiled-finish, black frame. A coaster brake is great to have for rainy days. I usually buy them needing more work. I'm thinking I'll re-paint the mudguard white tail, change-out the kickstand, and ride it.
12-31-18, 09:11 AM
Senior Member
Fixies are pure and simple racing bikes. A binary system,
on and off. Pedaling or stopping, nothing in between.
They are not suitable for everyday riding and are
not for novices . They are not forgiving.
They are a fad for the young and reckless, that has, thankfully, mostly passed.
I've said my piece and welcome any
counter arguments.
on and off. Pedaling or stopping, nothing in between.
They are not suitable for everyday riding and are
not for novices . They are not forgiving.
They are a fad for the young and reckless, that has, thankfully, mostly passed.
I've said my piece and welcome any
counter arguments.
12-31-18, 09:14 AM
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These bikes are hard to explain. Somehow, even with the weight, they are fun for me to ride. I'll always keep one ready to go for those times I'm in the mood for something different. I do gear them down so my old legs can handle inclines, but rod brakes and all, I have no problem taking in the countryside on my big roadster. Puts a smile on my face every time.
It makes a big difference
A Quick Story
I went to the parts counter at a local bike shop
and the regular helpful guy wasn't there.
I asked the young man (purple hair/nose rings etc.) for some Sturmey Archer 22T cogs.
He looked at the computer and said they didn't have any....
I suggested we look in the parts drawer directly behind his head
labelled "Sturmey Archer Cogs".
Lo and behold, it was ram jam full.
"That's weird" he said.
I bought four and left.
12-31-18, 09:27 AM
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I've been putting larger cogs (20T/22T) on all of my recent builds.
It makes a big difference
A Quick Story
I went to the parts counter at a local bike shop
and the regular helpful guy wasn't there.
I asked the young man (purple hair/nose rings etc.) for some Sturmey Archer 22T cogs.
He looked at the computer and said they didn't have any....
I suggested we look in the parts drawer directly behind his head
labelled "Sturmey Archer Cogs".
Lo and behold, it was ram jam full.
"That's weird" he said.
I bought four and left.
It makes a big difference
A Quick Story
I went to the parts counter at a local bike shop
and the regular helpful guy wasn't there.
I asked the young man (purple hair/nose rings etc.) for some Sturmey Archer 22T cogs.
He looked at the computer and said they didn't have any....
I suggested we look in the parts drawer directly behind his head
labelled "Sturmey Archer Cogs".
Lo and behold, it was ram jam full.
"That's weird" he said.
I bought four and left.
12-31-18, 09:44 AM
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Great afternoon.
I was one of the potential buyers doing "the usual cl thing" -- meaning, I think, that I dithered. Sorry, Bill. We probably had a deal for one, but I ran out of time and had to leave town.
Bill would like to do a package deal of a few bikes and some parts. He's a solid, trustable, and knowledgeable guy. When I return to the Cape in spring, if he still has some 3-speeds, I'd like to buy a bike. I wish I got one of his Tourists which isn't not far from being a stunner. You should buy his bikes.
Bill uses the "make me an offer" sales method. On fixed-priced cl purchase ads, I don't think I've ever showed up and not bought. I personally prefer the fixed-price sales or expressed price with an OBO. (If a bike isn't as good as advertised or looked in photos, negotiation seems appropriate.) When I sell, I list a price that I'm pretty firm on. ...just me.
I did buy a '63 Humber yesterday and loved the transaction from first email to waving good-bye in the seller's driveway. Wished I'd saved the ad with craigslist ad saver (Home - Craigslist Ad Saver) but the ad read: "HUMBER - the bicycle architects of England made this quality 3 speed - Rolls good - nice patina - fenders and chain guard are in near perfect shape - good tires - 26 inch - all speeds work - rare to find everything in such great shape. Collector bike or ride it. - had dual baskets in the back. Fair and firm price. $70." Oiled-finish, black frame. A coaster brake is great to have for rainy days. I usually buy them needing more work. I'm thinking I'll re-paint the mudguard white tail, change-out the kickstand, and ride it.
Bill would like to do a package deal of a few bikes and some parts. He's a solid, trustable, and knowledgeable guy. When I return to the Cape in spring, if he still has some 3-speeds, I'd like to buy a bike. I wish I got one of his Tourists which isn't not far from being a stunner. You should buy his bikes.
Bill uses the "make me an offer" sales method. On fixed-priced cl purchase ads, I don't think I've ever showed up and not bought. I personally prefer the fixed-price sales or expressed price with an OBO. (If a bike isn't as good as advertised or looked in photos, negotiation seems appropriate.) When I sell, I list a price that I'm pretty firm on. ...just me.
I did buy a '63 Humber yesterday and loved the transaction from first email to waving good-bye in the seller's driveway. Wished I'd saved the ad with craigslist ad saver (Home - Craigslist Ad Saver) but the ad read: "HUMBER - the bicycle architects of England made this quality 3 speed - Rolls good - nice patina - fenders and chain guard are in near perfect shape - good tires - 26 inch - all speeds work - rare to find everything in such great shape. Collector bike or ride it. - had dual baskets in the back. Fair and firm price. $70." Oiled-finish, black frame. A coaster brake is great to have for rainy days. I usually buy them needing more work. I'm thinking I'll re-paint the mudguard white tail, change-out the kickstand, and ride it.
Definetly would’ve enjoyed more time to wheel and deal.
I also use these sessions as a learning opportunity.
The rides of those two bikes was night and day!
Both good, just different.
Bigchief, I will keep at least one...or both.
I do ride with people who don’t have multiple types of bikes.
Huge departure from whatever they are riding!
12-31-18, 09:58 AM
Senior Member
Hey Rob,
Definetly would’ve enjoyed more time to wheel and deal.
I also use these sessions as a learning opportunity.
The rides of those two bikes was night and day!
Both good, just different.
Bigchief, I will keep at least one...or both.
I do ride with people who don’t have multiple types of bikes.
Huge departure from whatever they are riding!
Last edited by RobHalligan; 12-31-18 at 03:14 PM. Reason: added a word I feft out.
12-31-18, 10:24 AM
Senior Member
1968 Sports
I'll take out 2 ostensibly identical Raleighs and the two will have completely different feels. I've gone to the effort to swap out parts from the one that feels great to the one I really want to feel great but rarely figure out what makes that difference in feel. So, I ride a fairly beat-up 1968 Sports with Kenda more often than one of my decked-out Superbes. If you figure that one out, I'd love to know.
Last edited by RobHalligan; 12-31-18 at 12:44 PM. Reason: added
12-31-18, 02:51 PM
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1968 Sports
Well, I should take some of that back. Looking at that Sports, it's not looking bad at all (from about 10 feet). Maybe I should replace that rock hard saddle and rig up some Dynohub lights. Falling for something (or someone) you didn't expect to is a good thing.
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12-31-18, 03:10 PM
Senior Member
Trying to figure Raleigh's logic can be frustrating or futile. In the case you ponder, I think the B72s weigh and cost less without losing much comfort. I've been tempted to fit a B17 but don't think I've ever ridden one on an upright. Thanks for complimenting the bike.