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LBS vs Internet HELP!!!

Old 09-07-05, 05:03 PM
  #1  
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Ok, I am most likely going to buy a 2005 Specialized Stumpjumper (non-disc) but I want Avid BB7 discs. I can, thanks to Raiyn, buy Avid BB7s for ~$75 a piece on pricepoint. However, my LBS will not install the brakes free or offer any warranty (I did not ask them, but it could play a part in whether or not I should buy them on-line):
"I will match the price on the bike but cannot honor any free service or
warranty if we install mail order brakes from price point. I will
give you 10% off on the brakes and we will install them at no charge.
The bike comes with pedals so you won't need them. Do not mail order
shoes, get some Specialized BG Sports. You can have 10% off on shoes.
Bar ends for $15.99, not a problem. Cages, $6.99 each. Helmets, I
would strongly suggest going up to the Chamonix model, considerably
more comfortable.
My guess is Mr. Kozy is sitting on some serious Stump inventory. I'll
have to smack Ron in the head the next time I see him : )
What model of computer do you want?

We do give 2 years of free adjustments and a number of other goodies
when we sell a bike."

-So is $979 a good buy on the '05 stumpjumper?
-Should I buy the brakes from the LBS or from pricepoint? [I'm finding out more details about the LBS price of the brakes]


EDIT: I am just going to hold off on disc brakes for a while, at least until I NEED them

Cheers.

Last edited by Callaway; 09-23-05 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 09-07-05, 05:15 PM
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Why would a LBS offer free anything you get from Mail Order? You already stated you would get them from mail order and then told your LBS that? There is one thing I cannot stand is what you did. Proper ettiquite is to never tell your LBS you bought anything mail order, then expect them to warranty or install it or anything else for free.
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Old 09-07-05, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hunter
Why would a LBS offer free anything you get from Mail Order? You already stated you would get them from mail order and then told your LBS that? There is one thing I cannot stand is what you did. Proper ettiquite is to never tell your LBS you bought anything mail order, then expect them to warranty or install it or anything else for free.
Sorry. I am a capitalist, I like quality products, and I am not gonna lie about where I bought any product. I am WORKING with my LBS figuring out what MY (the CUSTOMER'S) best option is to get what I want. I like good service and a place that will bargain and work with me, therefore I give them my business. Don't worry about etiquette, I am not proper, I am blunt so I have no reservation in telling you to get over it. By-the-way, I didn't expect anything:
"Dave O.-Sorry to keep emailing, but I am pretty excited about the Stumpjumper. I am still looking at pricing stuff and accessories. I really liked the shop there in Eden Prairie, but I haven't stopped at any of the other Erik's so I can't really compare. But I am thinking that Erik's is the best LBS around.
Anyway, I have attached a spreadsheet of what I want to buy and where I will probably buy it. The spreadsheet is in excel format so if you can't open it let me know and I will email you a pasted version. I know that your matching policy only applies to stores in the TC area but I found a sweet deal on the Stumpjumper that maybe you guys can match. Here is the link to the price I am coming up with:
https://kozy.com/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=3687
See the spreadsheet for the prices on the rest of the accessories and then let me know what you can do and we can go from there-"

The Spreadsheet in question:
Item Purchase Price $ MSRP $ Purchase Location Notes
stumpjumper $979.99 $1,300 Erik's Bike Shop base model, add disc brakes
Avid BB7s $161.19 $220.00 Pricepoint.com buy in a advance and bring into Erik's
Helmet $29.99 $39.99 Erik's Bike Shop Specialized Air Force- buy Theresa a woman's version ($30)
Winter gloves $55 $55.00 Specialized BG Radiant glove
shoes/pedals $99.98 $230.00 Pricepoint.com Sette Epic Shoe w/Wellgo M3 pedals
Computer $69.99 $99.99 Erik's Bike Shop
Bar Ends $15.99 $15.99 Specialized Erik's charges $24.99??? Same product
Cage $16.99 $16.99 Erik's Bike Shop
Water bottle $3.99 $3.99 Erik's Bike Shop Erik's bottle
Total $1,433.11 $1,982
Theresa's helmet $30 $39.99
$1,463.11 $2,022

It might be tough to read (I just pasted it from excel), but the chart is not the point, the point is he inferred and I never asked or expected.
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Old 09-07-05, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hunter
Why would a LBS offer free anything you get from Mail Order? You already stated you would get them from mail order and then told your LBS that? There is one thing I cannot stand is what you did. Proper ettiquite is to never tell your LBS you bought anything mail order, then expect them to warranty or install it or anything else for free.
True enough. Also installing Avid's is pretty easy even for a novice if you FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS
I totally agree, you shouldn't expect the shop to install any outside purchases for free. Do you ask the car dealership to install an aftermarket stereo for free? Uhh No! Do you have the local tire shop mount tires to rims for free when you bought both online or elsewhere? Hell no
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Old 09-07-05, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Raiyn
True enough. Also installing Avid's is pretty easy even for a novice if you FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS
I totally agree, you shouldn't expect the shop to install any outside purchases for free. Do you ask the car dealership to install an aftermarket stereo for free? Uhh No! Do you have the local tire shop mount tires to rims for free when you bought both online or elsewhere? Hell no
I totally agree, but not the point; looking at posting times you did not see my response.

Last edited by Callaway; 09-07-05 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 09-07-05, 06:06 PM
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I think you just lost a LBS. Maybe he could have given you tips on local trails, tips on tuning, problems that come up that he would just tell you how to solve, or start to solve. Anyway, your loss prick.

Competitve pricing is one thing, but being an assho are 2 different things. You are giving them the ammo to say "we don't want this kind of customer who will **** us at any given moment."
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Old 09-07-05, 06:19 PM
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Still dont' know you expect free labour on something the bike shop didn't sell....
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Old 09-07-05, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by thejoe
I think you just lost a LBS. Maybe he could have given you tips on local trails, tips on tuning, problems that come up that he would just tell you how to solve, or start to solve. Anyway, your loss prick.

Competitve pricing is one thing, but being an assho are 2 different things. You are giving them the ammo to say "we don't want this kind of customer who will **** us at any given moment."
GOOD GOD! Can you fu@#ing read? I have not lost the LBS, the guy I am talking to (DAVE) is one of the corporate guys giving me a good deal. I never asked for anything- LIKE I FU@#ING SAID:
Originally Posted by callaway
not the point, the point is he inferred and I never asked or expected
Damn, lets not change topics here. I support my LBS, they like my business, and I assure you I have not compromised the relationship! I don't live in an area with a punch of pansy ass punks. I am direct, they are direct and we get along great, BUT THE POINT REMAINS THAT I NEVER ASKED FOR MY LBS TO INSTALL OR WARRANTY THE BREAKS, THUS, I DID NOT ASK THEM TO DO IT FOR FREE.

If you still misunderstand- then be sad, cry me a river build a bridge, and get the FU@# over it

Otherwise, lets get back on track-

-So is $979 a good buy on the '05 stumpjumper?
-Should I buy the brakes from the LBS or from pricepoint? [I'm finding out more details about the LBS price of the brakes]

Last edited by Callaway; 09-07-05 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 09-07-05, 06:32 PM
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Who's Dave? Dave O. who sent the spreadsheet? Is he the same guy who would give you 10% on the shoes?
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Old 09-07-05, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by thejoe
Who's Dave? Dave O. who sent the spreadsheet? Is he the same guy who would give you 10% on the shoes?
Dave O. is the guy from the corporate office of my LBS, who I have been emailing/talking with for about a week. Yeah, the LBS offers pretty sweet deals.
Sorry, I sent the spreadsheet to Dave O. (same guy). I researched good prices, msrps, and locations put them rogether and emailed the spreadsheet to him.
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Old 09-07-05, 06:41 PM
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Look closer at what Dave O. is saying:
"I will match the price on the bike but cannot honor any free service or warranty if we install mail order brakes from price point." He is simply informing me on the policy, the fact that they can't warranty or install the brakes for free. I never asked about it.
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Old 09-07-05, 06:41 PM
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Right. Rake them over a few coals then throw them a bone (large profit items, probably tires, gloves, new WTB Stealth seat, INSTALLATION, etc.) They have to make a profit, winter months probably hurt.
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Old 09-07-05, 06:51 PM
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I guess you're somewhat more on track. A competitor offered a decent price on the bike, Dave O. (my LBS guy) said he'd match the offer and he is asking(/suggesting) me to updgrade items in my fairly extensive accessory list, a good $3-400 worth of stuff. They are a business (its not like I'm stealing it from a handicapped kid or something), they aren't gonna do business with me if they lose money, I don't want them to go broke, I LIKE THIS STORE. Does everyone here pay MSRP when buying cars?

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Old 09-07-05, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by thejoe
I think you just lost a LBS. Maybe he could have given you tips on local trails, tips on tuning, problems that come up that he would just tell you how to solve, or start to solve. Anyway, your loss prick.

Competitve pricing is one thing, but being an assho are 2 different things. You are giving them the ammo to say "we don't want this kind of customer who will **** us at any given moment."
I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but:

1. Apologize for the offenses. Personal aggraviations are not welcomed.
2. We don't want that kind of customer? SIGH* I see you never runned a business in your life.

Happy riding,

Ricardo
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Old 09-07-05, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Callaway
Sorry. I am a capitalist,
Sounds like the LBS are capitalists too. Why would they spend their capital installing your internet bought brakes for no return? As a capitalist this should be clear to you.

The LBS sounds reasonable to me. If you want to save some money install the brakes yourself.
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Old 09-08-05, 04:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricardo
I'm not trying to start a flame war here, but:

1. Apologize for the offenses. Personal aggraviations are not welcomed.
2. We don't want that kind of customer? SIGH* I see you never runned a business in your life.

Happy riding,

Ricardo
1. I do apologize for getting upset and name calling.
2. Maybe it was the way he phrased his posts, but it sounded to me that he wanted his LBS to install all his internet goodies for free and add a warranty. In point of fact, I have run my own computer business. That is why I got upset. Sure I sold stuff at $0 margin, but only if I got some labor $ out of it.
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Old 09-08-05, 05:11 AM
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<sigh> Whatever, don't bother reading the rest of the posts, or even attempt to understand them.

Originally Posted by Ziemas
Sounds like the LBS are capitalists too. Why would they spend their capital installing your internet bought brakes for no return? As a capitalist this should be clear to you.

The LBS sounds reasonable to me. If you want to save some money install the brakes yourself.
AGAIN- I never asked the LBS to install the brakes and I am not the one complaining about business practices or consumer practices.

Dave and I have talked since these posts (believe me, he is no where near offended), only a few guys here that read the second post and nothing else still think this is about me asking for brakes from the internet to be installed for free.

So, no apology needed, no offense was committed.

I WAS RESEARCHING BRAKES, SIMPLY NOTIFIED MY LBS OF THE GOOD DEAL I FOUND, AND THEY TOLD ME THEY COULD NOT WARRANTY OR INSTALL FOR FREE SO THAT I WOULD BUY THE BRAKES FROM THEM, I NEVER SUGGESTED THEY EVEN INSTALL THE BRAKES. You would know all of this by reading the previous posts, there aren't that many! READ THE PREVIOUS FU@#ING POSTS!!!!!!!!!
SO-
-So is $979 a good buy on the '05 stumpjumper?
-Should I buy the brakes from the LBS or from pricepoint (this has nothing to do with installing)?

Last edited by Callaway; 09-08-05 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 09-08-05, 05:19 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by thejoe
1. I do apologize for getting upset and name calling.
No offense here
Originally Posted by thejoe
2. Maybe it was the way he phrased his posts, but it sounded to me that he wanted his LBS to install all his internet goodies for free and add a warranty. In point of fact, I have run my own computer business. That is why I got upset. Sure I sold stuff at $0 margin, but only if I got some labor $ out of it.
At least I think you understand otherwise now, Hunter assumed the same and now I get to deal with this $hit and not get my questions answered. His A$$umption sure made an A$$ out of me!

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Old 09-08-05, 04:10 PM
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$979 seems like a good deal, since less then a year ago they were 1700 for the lowest model.
As for the brakes thats totaly up to you. How much more are they at the lbs then online? Does the free installation and support justify the higher price to you, or would you mind installing and setting them up yourself? If not how much would the lbs charge to install, added to the price online how much difference would it be if you would just purchase at lbs?
Can anyone else understand this besides me
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Old 09-08-05, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by crgowo
$979 seems like a good deal, since less then a year ago they were 1700 for the lowest model.
As for the brakes thats totaly up to you. How much more are they at the lbs then online? Does the free installation and support justify the higher price to you, or would you mind installing and setting them up yourself? If not how much would the lbs charge to install, added to the price online how much difference would it be if you would just purchase at lbs?
Can anyone else understand this besides me
Thank you very much for understanding the real dilemma here I am still working out the details, but I may just buy the bike, non-d version and then updgrade later, I suppose I don't need them right away.

Cheers I think I need one!
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Old 09-08-05, 04:44 PM
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A lbs supplies more than just a cheap bike, or cheap/ free labour. They give to the community by sponsoring group rides, local races, local charity, trail maintenance, great advice to anyone- these are just some of the main ones. When you invest in a bike from an lbs, you invest in your community. If you really are a 'capitalist' you are concerned with mainly yourself. So don't bother riding the local trails or races etc. Stay in your little sphere of self and don't bother to see what community you have around you.
Sorry if you play a active role in your bike community, it does not sound like it though. * I never have worked in or owned a lbs.
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Old 09-08-05, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cod3man
A lbs supplies more than just a cheap bike, or cheap/ free labour. They give to the community by sponsoring group rides, local races, local charity, trail maintenance, great advice to anyone- these are just some of the main ones. When you invest in a bike from an lbs, you invest in your community. If you really are a 'capitalist' you are concerned with mainly yourself. So don't bother riding the local trails or races etc. Stay in your little sphere of self and don't bother to see what community you have around you.
Sorry if you play a active role in your bike community, it does not sound like it though. * I never have worked in or owned a lbs.
HAHA! Get lost commie- with analysis like that you'll be doing a lot of people a favor! Oh yeah, when you get there- be sure to pay msrp! I'm a pisces too, what else can you tell about me???
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Old 09-08-05, 04:54 PM
  #23  
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Actually $1470 is the real MSRP on that bike, and the price will drop fast near the end of this year, until they're all sold. Saving $500 on a $1500 bike IS a good deal, but it's NOT a steal. I saved $200 off the MSRP on my last bike, and I bought it right at the start of Spring (highest price time).

Make sure the front fork has disc tabs or you'll put even more $$$ into the bike to make it a disc brake ride....

You never want to totally piss off a LBS unless you never intend to deal with them again. Kinda like me & Liberty Bicycle's in Asheville, NC.

Brake sets are very easy to install, unless you have two left hands.... Then you can just install two front brakes I supose.
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Old 09-08-05, 04:59 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Killer B
Actually $1470 is the real MSRP on that bike, and the price will drop fast near the end of this year, until they're all sold. Saving $500 on a $1500 bike IS a good deal, but it's NOT a steal. I saved $200 off the MSRP on my last bike, and I bought it right at the start of Spring (highest price time).
Ok, so it at least sounds like it is a good buy.

Originally Posted by Killer B
Make sure the front fork has disc tabs or you'll put even more $$$ into the bike to make it a disc brake ride....
They should because it is literally the same bike just with different bikes and according to the specs, hubs are the same etc... But I will be and sure to check

Originally Posted by Killer B
You never want to totally piss off a LBS unless you never intend to deal with them again. Kinda like me & Liberty Bicycle's in Asheville, NC.
I agree, I haven't, regardless of what it seems like, and I don't plan to with this one!
cheers
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Old 09-08-05, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cod3man
I never have worked in or owned a lbs.
That's good, because nothing will sink a small business faster than owners with whiny customer-hating entitlement attitude.
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