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Intermittant Fasting 🍴

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Old 05-15-18, 08:27 AM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Recall that IF is not a diet, rather, a diet protocol to help your body achieve improved exercise efficiency and nutritional benefit from whatever diet and training routine you choose. Its multi pronged approach that places the body in a higher bio-active state for maximum nutritional uptake, and exercise recuperation. He makes some great points for many of the diet ills of western society, but I think Dr. David Reuben beat him to it. By the time I finished his book, I was afraid to drink water.
Laying it on a little thick, don't you think?
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Old 05-15-18, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Laying it on a little thick, don't you think?
A naysayer? Just so that we're clear, I don't make anything up. All of my posts are the result of what I've researched or experienced. If you disagree feel free to post a counterpoint (that's the point of these threads), but don't just case aspersions without any support or validation.
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Old 05-15-18, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Um, no. But even if I did it wouldn't pass on anything that biased and esoteric. The *studies and research I quote* are a lot more reliable and with less biased than that. Maybe if you rephrase the question if I misunderstand what you're asking?First, its an adaptive process. So it takes time to build up to the point of best utilization.

Second, I've expressed on multiple occasions, that I'm not an advocate of fasted cycling, nor do I intent to be anytime soon. I don't think that's the best application for IF.

Also we need to keep in mind that IF is a protocol, not a diet. Nevertheless, if you have any information about its effectiveness, I wouldn't mind hearing it. Which is one reason I'm not an advocate.
I think I missed seeing any studies and research among your posts. By those two words, I mean research papers published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. You know, equivalent to the studies I've posted in this thread. Since as you say, there are zillions of studies out there, it shouldn't be too hard for you to find and post studies that support your contentions that IF:

1) will "achieve improved exercise efficiency and nutritional benefit from whatever diet and training routine you choose "
2) "places the body in a higher bio-active state for maximum nutritional uptake, and exercise recuperation"
3) "
I choose to use IF, predominantly as an anaerobic training tool" (studies to back up that this works, i.e. IF improves anaerobic performance)
4) "increased muscle hypertrophy"

"Also, some people are anomalies, but that's not science. There's not necessarily a right or wrong, but it has to be something that works for the majority, and is repeatable under similar circumstances to be valid." Since you admit that, there must be RCTs which support your contentions.
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Old 05-15-18, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
A naysayer? Just so that we're clear, I don't make anything up. All of my posts are the result of what I've researched or experienced. If you disagree feel free to post a counterpoint (that's the point of these threads), but don't just case aspersions without any support or validation.
Oh really?
Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Recall that IF is not a diet, rather, a diet protocol to help your body achieve improved exercise efficiency and nutritional benefit from whatever diet and training routine you choose. Its multi pronged approach that places the body in a higher bio-active state for maximum nutritional uptake, and exercise recuperation.
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Old 05-15-18, 01:37 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
A naysayer? Just so that we're clear, I don't make anything up. All of my posts are the result of what I've researched or experienced. If you disagree feel free to post a counterpoint (that's the point of these threads), but don't just case aspersions without any support or validation.
I realist. I was just noticing that your post about the incredible magic of IF was both very promising but also quite vague at the same time. It was really dense with pseudo-science language.

I don't doubt that there's something there in IF for a lot of people, but some of the hype surrounding it ...
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Old 05-15-18, 10:48 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I think I missed seeing any studies and research among your posts. By those two words, I mean research papers published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. You know, equivalent to the studies I've posted in this thread. Since as you say, there are zillions of studies out there, it shouldn't be too hard for you to find and post studies that support your contentions that IF:
Actually, it is. I don't keep a database of all the material I go through daily. In addition, I'm not selling anything here, so its of no loss to me if you choose not to believe it. Nevertheless, if you ask a question, I'll try and provide whatever material I can.

Just keep in mind I didn't invent the concept, so don't shoot the messenger. If you disagree, focus on the author. I do learn from these sites, but this presents my opportunity to give something back. At least to the limit of what I've leaned. This thread is also my attempt to learn more. So some ulterior motive too
.

1) will "achieve improved exercise efficiency and nutritional benefit from whatever diet and training routine you choose "
2) "places the body in a higher bio-active state for maximum nutritional uptake, and exercise recuperation"
3) "
I choose to use IF, predominantly as an anaerobic training tool" (studies to back up that this works, i.e. IF improves anaerobic performance)
4) "increased muscle hypertrophy"
Yep, but as a cyclist you should recognize the amount of difference between Ultegra and Dura Ace.

"Also, some people are anomalies, but that's not science. There's not necessarily a right or wrong, but it has to be something that works for the majority, and is repeatable under similar circumstances to be valid." Since you admit that, there must be RCTs which support your contentions.
You can find that assertion in many of my post. But studies are sometimes like statistic: they can say what you want them to say. In addition, many just provide data and you have to interpret what that data means and how (or if) it even applies to you. See below.
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I realist. I was just noticing that your post about the incredible magic of IF was both very promising but also quite vague at the same time. It was really dense with pseudo-science language.
That's intentional: writing 101 cater to your audience. Not everyone here wants to read some long, boring study filled with technical gobbledygook. People that are truly interested either research answers for themselves or ask for more details.

I do my best to summarize and put things into more widely understood terms. If I'm doing it wrong, then I can learn something. The idea is to leave more knowledgeable than when we came in. Which is, I hope, everyone's goal.

I don't doubt that there's something there in IF for a lot of people, but some of the hype surrounding it ...
That's a good perspective to have. That means you have a cautious but open mind. I'm the same way. I figured IF has been around for a very long time. Even if it doesn't work for everyone, it has to be more than just broscience.

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Old 05-16-18, 01:20 AM
  #132  
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The Rise of Intermittent Fasting: Relevant or Fad? 🍽️

Some additional data I found on IF. Note that although these are not clinical trials, many have been used to compile the data, and/or are highlighted within the articles.

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Old 05-16-18, 08:25 AM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
That's a good perspective to have. That means you have a cautious but open mind. I'm the same way. I figured IF has been around for a very long time. Even if it doesn't work for everyone, it has to be more than just broscience.
My hunch is that IF probably has two main things to offer most people: a psychological benefit like being in control of your hunger along with a schedule, and it probably helps control insulin levels in people who don't exercise. There could be more, I don't know, it's a bit of an open question, but those two seem to be real.
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Old 05-21-18, 03:37 AM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Any time somebody uses the word "magic" to promote a diet.

As long as you're doing a progressive resistance program and getting enough calories and hitting your macros, IF probably isn't hurting you much in terms of your goal of muscle growth.
Either this is an unusually tough audience, or I need to do a better job on my mocking? Reference your database on snake oil salesman. On the other hand, maybe you're still dubious about IF?
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Old 05-23-18, 04:45 PM
  #135  
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Two new vids I discovered on IF. The first is on fasted training. Some folks might find 4:00 of particular interest where he discusses the hormonal benefits of IF during training. The second, specifies some of the classic mistakes of IF.





- Thomas DeLauer has so pretty credible perspective -- based on research -- on most issues.
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Old 05-29-18, 05:20 AM
  #136  
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What is going on in this thread?
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Old 05-29-18, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
What is going on in this thread?
In general I think KraneXL is trying to convince the rest of us of the "magic" of IF. But, I suspect most of the other posters on here have seen enough fad diet trends in the past to buy into the idea that it is somehow superior to other forms of calorie restriction.
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Old 05-29-18, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
What is going on in this thread?
If you're referring to the links (I assume you're not just a naysayer), I'm not sure. I test them once I submit. They were work at that point but I will try to resubmitt.
Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
In general I think KraneXL is trying to convince the rest of us of the "magic" of IF. But, I suspect most of the other posters on here have seen enough fad diet trends in the past to buy into the idea that it is somehow superior to other forms of calorie restriction.
I'm trying to help you become a more educated consumer. If the information presented here appeals to you then you leave the thread with useful information. If not, you simply unsubscribe and move on to the next thread that gives your the answers you want to hear.
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Old 05-29-18, 10:50 AM
  #139  
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High-Intensity Interval Training and Intermittent Fasting - A Winning Combo for Fat Reduction and Optimal Fitness





https://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fi...t-fasting.aspx

GSP - Intermittent Fasting Changed My Life - Joe Rogan Podcast

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Old 05-29-18, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
In general I think KraneXL is trying to convince the rest of us of the "magic" of IF. But, I suspect most of the other posters on here have seen enough fad diet trends in the past to buy into the idea that it is somehow superior to other forms of calorie restriction.
Simply put, HIIT is the best way to get shredded. A lot of people think they need to put in long, boring hours doing stupid cardio like riding a bike, but Iím here to say if YOUR fitness plan isnít built around HIIT, youíre wasting your time. You have to shock your metabolites into submission if you want to torch fat. Keep the body guessing Ė one day itís sprint intervals the next day you dress like a clown! Look, itís not about endless hours of cardio, HIIT does more for your fitness in 45 short minutes than a lifetime of riding a bike. It unlocks weight loss hormones, jump starts your metabolism, and incinerates calories. You even get a 3 % boost for EPOC. Combined with the anabolic magic of IF, HIIT will have any couch potato looking like Arnold inside of a week! Plus if you really want results you have to take a fat burner and I review the best 3 of them here.
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Old 05-29-18, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Simply put, HIIT is the best way to get shredded. A lot of people think they need to put in long, boring hours doing stupid cardio like riding a bike, but Iím here to say if YOUR fitness plan isnít built around HIIT, youíre wasting your time. You have to shock your metabolites into submission if you want to torch fat. Keep the body guessing Ė one day itís sprint intervals the next day you dress like a clown! Look, itís not about endless hours of cardio, HIIT does more for your fitness in 45 short minutes than a lifetime of riding a bike. It unlocks weight loss hormones, jump starts your metabolism, and incinerates calories. You even get a 3 % boost for EPOC. Combined with the anabolic magic of IF, HIIT will have any couch potato looking like Arnold inside of a week! Plus if you really want results you have to take a fat burner and I review the best 3 of them here.
Well, I've always respected your opinion, but I think you may be overstating what HIIT... wait a minute... I see what you did there.
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Old 05-29-18, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Well, I've always respected your opinion, but I think you may be overstating what HIIT... wait a minute... I see what you did there.
got me hook line and sinker too, was about to rage post.
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Old 05-29-18, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
I'm trying to help you become a more educated consumer.
That's great nothing wrong with that .... but keep in mind that there are a lot of very experienced people posting on this forum. Some have many years of experience and have experimented with all types of different nutritional and training protocols and they have figured out what works for them and what doesn't....I have my own system which works great for me. I space my meals 5-6 hours apart. This includes an early morning breakfast, a lunch at noon hour, late afternoon snack or post workout drink and late evening dinner before bedtime, that's what works best for me.
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Old 05-29-18, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post

High-Intensity Interval Training and Intermittent Fasting - A Winning Combo for Fat Reduction and Optimal Fitness





https://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fi...t-fasting.aspx

GSP - Intermittent Fasting Changed My Life - Joe Rogan Podcast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_KS3RQbB5g
I respect GSP and really enjoy listening to his podcasts and watching his training and fight videos...but I also think that Dr. Mercola is just a quack and should be completely ignored.
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Old 05-29-18, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
That's great nothing wrong with that .... but keep in mind that there are a lot of very experienced people posting on this forum. Some have many years of experience and have experimented with all types of different nutritional and training protocols and they have figured out what works for them and what doesn't....I have my own system which works great for me.
That's fine, so did I before. But that doesn't mean you're limited to that one system or that there not some else that may work even better. You never know until you try it. But you first have to hear that it exists, and know how it works.
I space my meals 5-6 hours apart. This includes an early morning breakfast, a lunch at noon hour, late afternoon snack or post workout drink and late evening dinner before bedtime, that's what works best for me.
No issues with that. There are many diets and protocols available, and IF may not be the right choice for everyone. Nevertheless, fasting is centuries old and likely the most natural for our bodies. In any event, choose the diet that works best for your goal and lifestyles.
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Old 05-30-18, 12:07 AM
  #146  
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My personal experience with IF is that for me it'd require quite strange timings to work. I need breakfast, not because I'm hungry in the mornings but because if I don't eat breakfast my insulin sensitivity will just go away for the rest of the day. I know IF is supposed to increase insulin sensitivity but for me in some cases it causes the opposite. The effects of breakfast on insulin sensitivity have also been studied and it would seem especially for diabetics like me eating breakfast is a viable choice to control insulin sensitivity for the rest of the day
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Old 05-30-18, 12:16 AM
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If you really wanna fast intermittently, try living on SNAP only.
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Old 05-30-18, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
If you really wanna fast intermittently, try living on SNAP only.
The people I know that are on snap are gargantuan, so maybe they're not doing it right?
Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
My personal experience with IF is that for me it'd require quite strange timings to work. I need breakfast, not because I'm hungry in the mornings but because if I don't eat breakfast my insulin sensitivity will just go away for the rest of the day. I know IF is supposed to increase insulin sensitivity but for me in some cases it causes the opposite. The effects of breakfast on insulin sensitivity have also been studied and it would seem especially for diabetics like me eating breakfast is a viable choice to control insulin sensitivity for the rest of the day
This is a perfect example of times when IF may not be the correct choice. Although, the "I" does offer even a special case such as yours some latitude if you thought it was something you could really benefit from.
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Old 06-02-18, 04:12 AM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
It seems to me the Taubes / Attia "are hacks" crowd of critics mimic the 'Hillary child slavery' / 'govt. delivering chemicals through jet contrails' / 'deep state' attack dog style in their scientific commentary. Leave me out of it, both of these gentlemen do a fine job of representing themselves in the books & articles, TED talks, etc.

Personally, Attis' history as an open water endurance swimmer, boxer, marathon runner gives him more credibly in my eyes. He is very much a proof of concept guy, as I see it.



.
Like him or not, agree with him or not (I don't agree with everything he says), you can't ignore his results or dismiss the science. Which is at this moment, as reliable as it gets. Here's he is on Joe Rogan's podcast with 7 minutes on the uptake of nutrients and the role of insulin (and other hormones) manipulated through fasting.



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Old 06-02-18, 08:02 AM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by KraneXL View Post
Like him or not, agree with him or not (I don't agree with everything he says), you can't ignore his results or dismiss the science. Which is at this moment, as reliable as it gets. Here's he is on Joe Rogan's podcast with 7 minutes on the uptake of nutrients and the role of insulin (and other hormones) manipulated through fasting.

Joe Rogan - Why Obese People Can't Lose Weight
What results? He's at best a midpack age grouper in TTs. You'd think with his following he'd be blowing the competition out of the water instead of being just an average cyclist. For example:
https://www.webscorer.com/racedetail...9521&did=34182
Iím at peace with the fact that I canít FTP at more than 4 watts/kg and probably never will again
https://peterattiamd.com/2016-update/
that's like high Cat4 level at best. Are we really going to use that as the standard? There are literally thousands of cyclists with better fitness using no particular diet at all.
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